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Ingerlund

harr1984 said:
Oh I agree, there are selections I would have done differently but at the same time I'm also aware that there is a lot more to it when you're actually in the hotseat that you have to consider way beyond what we would comprehend or see. Yeah, hopefully the FA comes up with a decent appointment to improve on Southgate's good work....
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Yeh I think alot comes down to things people do in the heat of battle and moment that is harder than what we say on here for sure. I also think some of it is stylistic too and what makes Gareth a good human is he is risk adverse and does it by the numbers but I just feel it makes him slightly undynamic in the key moments.....though that improves this tournament.

Anyway great debate, I am sticking a pin in England for a while haha
 
Jurgen the German said:
You don’t necessarily have to go for a big name. You mentioned Ange, I don’t think his name would have been on the top of many Spurs fans’ next manager list before we hired him other than Tommysvr. Just someone who has a progressive style of play and believes in a different concept of football to safety first managers like Southgate or Jose. I’m not sure I agree that Sven and Capello had a better group of players. We still have flaws now just as we did back then but I feel a key difference is we have more players that play abroad in different leagues and have had great success. I think the players we have now are technically better than we have had in the past. One other factor to mention, Southgate has benefited from fortunate draws in competitions, Euro 2020 being at home in every single game bar the quarter final whilst every other team had to travel around Europe for different games, last minute wonder goals when he was tactically outthought.

I definitely agree we overrate our players. I don’t think we should have been outright favourites for this tournament. However, we were definitely in the top 5 IMO. Think you’re being harsh on Bellingham, he wouldn’t have got a move to Real Madrid and made such an immediate impact if he wasn’t a special player. Yes he’s not the finished article but he seems to enjoy the big moments more so than Harry Kane for example who shrinks from them.

Regarding trophies, we’re not in any position to be demanding trophies. Your point would be stronger had Southgate won something and people still not being happy, but when you play negative football and don’t win then it’s not going to win you many fans. I’d bet most England fans would rather win play crap football than lose playing pretty football but I’d prefer taking a chance and potentially reaching a semi or a final and being good to watch rather than reaching a final and being boring to watch.
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We had top class players all over the pitch for Sven/Capello. Cole at LB, Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell where King couldnt even get many games, a midfield of Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes to pick from, Owen and then Rooney for Capello etc There were way more top class players we had in that era, but that is not what makes a team.

My analogy with Spurs isn't about demanding trophies, but the fact is after a couple of seasons us just playing nice football is no longer going to cut it for Ange rightly or wrongly and the majority of fans will want to see results. And it will be the same for whoever the new England manager is - sure it will be great if he gets us playing decent football, but come the tournaments it won't be long before he will be held to Southgate's standard and if he doesn't get us to at the very least semi finals in the not too distant tournaments then he will get criticised by the masses......
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yep, playing our best players out of position is another pet peeve of mine. Playing an overly defensive side in the Euro 2020 final. Being too loyal to players like Harry Maguire who no doubt would have started every game in this tournament if he wasn’t injured.
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You can criticize a manager for repeatedly picking players who are underperforming but Harry Maguire is an absolute monster for us and has been for some time.

When has he let us down? Plus the ability to score from set pieces is huge, Stones and Guehi did very well for the most part but don't offer anywhere near as much of a threat

Without wanting to go over well trodden ground the loyalty "issue" more seemed to be a problem with Kane imo.

Either way, on to an exciting new era and props to Southgate for overseeing the best period I've seen in my lifetime. It'll be intriguing to see how he does if he goes back in to club management, even if the vultures will be desperately hoping for him to fail for some reason..
 
harr1984 said:
We had top class players all over the pitch for Sven/Capello. Cole at LB, Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell where King couldnt even get many games, a midfield of Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes to pick from, Owen and then Rooney for Capello etc There were way more top class players we had in that era, but that is not what makes a team.

My analogy with Spurs isn't about demanding trophies, but the fact is after a couple of seasons us just playing nice football is no longer going to cut it for Ange rightly or wrongly and the majority of fans will want to see results. And it will be the same for whoever the new England manager is - sure it will be great if he gets us playing decent football, but come the tournaments it won't be long before he will be held to Southgate's standard and if he doesn't get us to at the very least semi finals in the not too distant tournaments then he will get criticised by the masses......
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Gotta be honest, I always thought Beckham was overrated. Same for Ferdinand. I’d agree our defence was vastly superior under Sven and Capello.

The England manager always gets the blame and always will. It’s never that simple and there are a variety of factors. We could get Pep or Klopp and not win anything and it would be their fault.
 
spurspinter1 said:
You can criticize a manager for repeatedly picking players who are underperforming but Harry Maguire is an absolute monster for us and has been for some time.

When has he let us down? Plus the ability to score from set pieces is huge, Stones and Guehi did very well for the most part but don't offer anywhere near as much of a threat

Without wanting to go over well trodden ground the loyalty "issue" more seemed to be a problem with Kane imo.

Either way, on to an exciting new era and props to Southgate for overseeing the best period I've seen in my lifetime. It'll be intriguing to see how he does if he goes back in to club management, even if the vultures will be desperately hoping for him to fail for some reason..
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He’s made mistakes in some of the qualifiers in the last 18-24 months. Honestly can’t remember who they were against. I’ll give you has performed at a higher level for England than he has at club level but I’m also a believer that you should factor in club form when it comes to picking players for your country and Maguire has been surplus to requirements in a poor United side. He has been good for England but far from undroppable as he has been under Southgate.

I think we’re on the same page re Kane and how he underperforms in big games relative to his talent.

I’d like to think most England fans would wish him well if he manages a club side. I’ve certainly got nothing against him.
 
According to some some reporter on the radio last night Maguire was completely shocked and angry to be left out by Southgate. He said Maguire was almost fit again and would have only missed the first group game.

I have no feelings for or against Maguire, Just thought it was interesting.

He also said Anthony Gordon crashed while trying to mess around recording himself riding a bike around (Sometime in camp during the group stages) and it tinkled Southgate off. No idea if that's the whole story but he didn't play again after that.
 
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Once you have Neanderthal fans throwing cups of drink at you after a game, it’s time to go. Who really wants that abuse in their job?
I really appreciate what he has done for the England team and where he has taken us, but also feel it hard to get over us not beating Italy in the final on our home ground.
He’s worked wonders with the media and taken a lot of pressure off the players. The football hasn’t been great by any means. But had he got us over the line against Italy, so much would have been forgiven.
Time for a change now. Just not sure I trust the FA to get the appointment right.
 
dingdongo said:
According to some some reporter on the radio last night Maguire was completely shocked and angry to be left out by Southgate. He said Maguire was almost fit again and would have only missed the first group game.

I have no feelings for or against Maguire, Just thought it was interesting.

He also said Anthony Gordon crashed while trying to mess around recording himself riding a bike around (Sometime in camp during the group stages) and it tinkled Southgate off. No idea if that's the whole story but he didn't play again after that.
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Guehi was a solid replacement. His performances were good!
 
dingdongo said:
According to some some reporter on the radio last night Maguire was completely shocked and angry to be left out by Southgate. He said Maguire was almost fit again and would have only missed the first group game.

I have no feelings for or against Maguire, Just thought it was interesting.

He also said Anthony Gordon crashed while trying to mess around recording himself riding a bike around (Sometime in camp during the group stages) and it tinkled Southgate off. No idea if that's the whole story but he didn't play again after that.
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Thing is he wasn't first choice for UTD but turned down a move to West Ham, fair chance that with regular football he'd of made the squad.
 
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