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Jurgen the German said:
We had a manager in Capello who had been extremely successful everywhere else before England. All of sudden, he fails to get England past the last 16 and he's a failure. I'm just a bit sick of the manager always getting the blame and the players getting off scot free, except for Rooney and Gerrard. Odd that Beckham, Scholes and the rest of the golden generation necer got the same stick.
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Maybe Capello wasn't suited to international football, not being able to see the players everyday and buy the missing players he needed. He was just as bad for Russia remember. Capello was under pressure because the football was turgid(!).
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Maybe Capello wasn't suited to international football, not being able to see the players everyday and buy the missing players he needed. He was just as bad for Russia remember. Capello was under pressure because the football was turgid(!).
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John Carew said that Capello didn't do any of the training and very little tactics. He would basically make sure he had some experienced heads in the squad that he trusted completely. They'd be entrusted with getting the team to play and he'd just show up on match days and scare everyone else into performing. Discipline and fear factor is all there is when it comes to Capello. Quite similar to Ferguson really. Hire some top coaches to work on the team shape and simply be a "motivator". With today's players that's getting harder and harder.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Maybe Capello wasn't suited to international football, not being able to see the players everyday and buy the missing players he needed. He was just as bad for Russia remember. Capello was under pressure because the football was turgid(!).
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I wasn't particularly defending Capello. The gist of the post was more that I'm tired of people blaming the manager when the players don't perform. At some point, we have to accept that maybe we are ranked 20th in the world for a reason and these players look much better surrounded by superior foreign players in the premier league.
 
Certainly the current crop are not the best players in the prem or anything like the most important players at their clubs, but the players are still better than many of the opposition they face, we really should be playing better and entertaining against that Norway side, just as an example off the top of my head. I don't think anyone is saying we should be walking out against Germany or Spain and expecting to win, far from it, but against the likes of Poland, Ukraine, Montenegro, Norway, etc. etc. I think we have the right, in terms of a player vs player analysis to expect a bit more swagger, performance and results from the team than we have been seeing.

If you go back to the 2000's we had rio, terry, king, judas, cole, Neville, beckham, scholes, carrick, lampard, gerrard, Rooney, Owen, shearer at one stage or another and these were all undoubtedly important players for their top of the table prem clubs, this group was hugely mismanaged and I'm not even suggesting we should be winning anything, but we got nowhere near and were pretty poor in all tournament games we played.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Certainly the current crop are not the best players in the prem or anything like the most important players at their clubs, but the players are still better than many of the opposition they face, we really should be playing better and entertaining against that Norway side, just as an example off the top of my head. I don't think anyone is saying we should be walking out against Germany or Spain and expecting to win, far from it, but against the likes of Poland, Ukraine, Montenegro, Norway, etc. etc. I think we have the right, in terms of a player vs player analysis to expect a bit more swagger, performance and results from the team than we have been seeing.

If you go back to the 2000's we had rio, terry, king, judas, cole, Neville, beckham, scholes, carrick, lampard, gerrard, Rooney, Owen, shearer at one stage or another and these were all undoubtedly important players for their top of the table prem clubs, this group was hugely mismanaged and I'm not even suggesting we should be winning anything, but we got nowhere near and were pretty poor in all tournament games we played.
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I agree that certain players have been mismanaged over the years. And I wasn't necessarily saying that every England manager since 96 has done a brilliant job and couldn't have done any more. Keegan, Sven, McClaren, Capello and now Hodsgon, that's 5 managers ( have I missed any?), I just think you get to a point where you have to say it might be more the players rather than the managers.

We've never been good on the ball or good to watch as far as I can remember back to Euro 96 and France 98.
 
When you were coming up to an [international] friendly, did the manager ever suggest you may have strained an ankle or had a problem with your back?

Butt: He’d never pull you out over a fake injury. It was a case of, ‘You’ve got an England game coming up – you’re not going’. And that was it. He was honest to the FA.

Phil, your brother thinks his time with England was a failure. Was yours?

Neville: We just failed. England should be winning major tournaments. The generation I played with, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Campbell, Butt, Scholes – we should’ve won a major tournament. I just don’t think we’ve got that big-tournament experience or big-tournament mentality.

Butt: I don’t agree with Phil here. I don’t think we were good enough.

Neville: I think we have been good enough.

Butt: I don’t. My turn to speak now. If you look at teams that are successful, they stay together for eight, nine, 10 years. England are always chopping and changing. We’re getting knocked out all the time anyway so why not get knocked out with a young team that try to progress together and, at the end of eight years, you’ve got a team who are comfortable together and know each other inside out. Like we did growing up.

Neville: There’s got to be some sort of plan where they win and experience a tournament at under-21 level.

Giggs: It’s not easy because the Premier League’s so powerful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11088420/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-warned-me-off-playing-for-England.html
 
haven't read the full article yet, but isnt nicky butt kind of wrong in regards to his point that england were always chopping and changing? players like r.ferdinand, terry, cole, g.neville, lampard, gerrard, beckham, rooney, owen, campbell were all mainstays in the england team for large periods during the 2000's. every team will have some changes, but off the top of my head, it seems as if england had a consistent core of key players.

on a side note, i've been thinking that i would love sven goran eriksson to be reappointed as england manager. mainly due to the fact that im in my early 20's now, and have many nostalgic memories of eriksson's term as england manager. i doubt he would do any worse than roy hodgson has been doing in the past few years. plus im sure he'd do it for almost nothing this time round. anyone else agree? :)
 
Neymar said:
haven't read the full article yet, but isnt nicky butt kind of wrong in regards to his point that england were always chopping and changing? players like r.ferdinand, terry, cole, g.neville, lampard, gerrard, beckham, rooney, owen, campbell were all mainstays in the england team for large periods during the 2000's. every team will have some changes, but off the top of my head, it seems as if england had a consistent core of key players.

on a side note, i've been thinking that i would love sven goran eriksson to be reappointed as england manager. mainly due to the fact that im in my early 20's now, and have many nostalgic memories of eriksson's term as england manager. i doubt he would do any worse than roy hodgson has been doing in the past few years. plus im sure he'd do it for almost nothing this time round. anyone else agree? :)
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Its ironic that Sven's abilty of getting England to quarter finals of tournaments was seen as failure at the time when now they would give anything for that "so called" failure.

Of course, at the time it was seen as under achievement due to the quality of the players.
 
shaney said:
Its ironic that Sven's abilty of getting England to quarter finals of tournaments was seen as failure at the time when now they would give anything for that "so called" failure.

Of course, at the time it was seen as under achievement due to the quality of the players.
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And we only lost to Brazil, Portugal and Portugal again in those quarter finals. Hardly teams we "should be beating".
 
it was as much the nature of the defeats under Sven that hurt, penalties after stupid reds, dodgy keeping, lazy tackles

yes we lost to better teams but we made mistakes
 
scaramanga said:
I think the whole England team between them should be able to beat Ronaldo.
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England
Formation
[1] Paul ROBINSON (GK)
[2] Gary NEVILLE
[3] Ashley COLE
[4] Steven GERRARD
[5] Rio FERDINAND
[6] John TERRY
[7] David BECKHAM (C) (-52')
[8] Frank LAMPARD
[9] Wayne ROONEY
[11] Joe COLE (-65')
[16] Owen HARGREAVES
Substitute(s)
[10] Michael OWEN
[12] Sol CAMPBELL
[13] David JAMES
[14] Wayne BRIDGE
[15] Jamie CARRAGHER (+119')
[17] Jermaine JENAS
[18] Michael CARRICK
[19] Aaron LENNON (+52')(-119')
[20] Stewart DOWNING
[21] Peter CROUCH
Portugal
Formation
[1] RICARDO (GK)
[5] FERNANDO MEIRA
[7] LUIS FIGO (C) (-86')
[8] PETIT
[9] PAULETA (-63')
[13] MIGUEL
[14] NUNO VALENTE
[16] RICARDO CARVALHO
[17] CRISTIANO RONALDO
[18] MANICHE
[19] TIAGO (-74')

These were the two sides. Not just a one man team, they still had Figo, Carvalho and Tiago amongst others. That was not a game I expected us to win, more hoped.
 
Jurgen the German said:
England
Formation
[1] Paul ROBINSON (GK)
[2] Gary NEVILLE
[3] Ashley COLE
[4] Steven GERRARD
[5] Rio FERDINAND
[6] John TERRY
[7] David BECKHAM (C) (-52')
[8] Frank LAMPARD
[9] Wayne ROONEY
[11] Joe COLE (-65')
[16] Owen HARGREAVES
Substitute(s)
[10] Michael OWEN
[12] Sol CAMPBELL
[13] David JAMES
[14] Wayne BRIDGE
[15] Jamie CARRAGHER (+119')
[17] Jermaine JENAS
[18] Michael CARRICK
[19] Aaron LENNON (+52')(-119')
[20] Stewart DOWNING
[21] Peter CROUCH
Portugal
Formation
[1] RICARDO (GK)
[5] FERNANDO MEIRA
[7] LUIS FIGO (C) (-86')
[8] PETIT
[9] PAULETA (-63')
[13] MIGUEL
[14] NUNO VALENTE
[16] RICARDO CARVALHO
[17] CRISTIANO RONALDO
[18] MANICHE
[19] TIAGO (-74')

These were the two sides. Not just a one man team, they still had Figo, Carvalho and Tiago amongst others. That was not a game I expected us to win, more hoped.
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That's a very long-winded way of saying England vs Ronaldo & Ronaldo's 10 assistants ;)
 
I think the best we ever looked was in Japan. We were solid at the back yet still quite creative up top. Had we not met Brazil when we did, we likely would have made the final. The problem always seemed to be the inabilty of our managers to create a midfield that fully utilised Gerrard and Lampard.
 
Cochise said:
I think the best we ever looked was in Japan. We were solid at the back yet still quite creative up top. Had we not met Brazil when we did, we likely would have made the final. The problem always seemed to be the inabilty of our managers to create a midfield that fully utilised Gerrard and Lampard.
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They are too similar. We shouldn't have persisted with BOTH of them for as long as we did. He should have made Gerrard the man and used Lampard as a super sub or perhaps part of a 5 man midfield, but not playing together in a 4-4-2.
 
galeforce said:
it was as much the nature of the defeats under Sven that hurt, penalties after stupid reds, dodgy keeping, lazy tackles

yes we lost to better teams but we made mistakes
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This sums it up for me. The manager is powerless if players get themselves sent off for stupid reasons.

I think the quarter finals were roughly the level we were at, perhaps a semi final at best.
 
Problem with England is we play names.
We should have played Gerrard or Lampard with the option of either coming off of the bench (that would be pretty psychologically damaging for an opponent as well)
I've got a feeling we'll do it again as well once Barkley is fit - we'll try and make sure all of the superstars are in the first XI square pegs in round holes or not.
Play a formation, pick your best XI for that formation and make a strong bench. Surely not rocket science is it?
 
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