I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[monkeybarry]

He COULD still come good, but the risk of him not doing so decreases all the time.

Best for all parties if he goes back to Italy - we cut loses, he gets his career back on track.
He won't be the first not to make it in the PL and I applaud his effort.

 

[africanspurs]

That's all well and good if it was ACTUALLY 2 years. It's effectively 18 months given his injury and the AVB/Sherwood changover turmoil.
It's why i think we should have waited until the next window to see if any significant improvement is shown; if not, fair enough- see ya later squire as you say.

With the comments from Gomes and no doubt some others i don't think we will be as attractive to young up-and-coming players from overseas as you think...Eriksen may be our last poster boy and he perhaps could be seen not to want to be hear atm either...

I think your last comment is hear say, plus the rumors of eriksen leaving are actually more to do with what every footballer wants..and that is success. Nothing wrong with that surely but has next to nothing to do with the development of young talent in the way you say might hinder us attracting them.
Infact its probably his success with us that has propelled him to make those comments and feel that clubs would be interested.
Not to mention that the possible lack of progression on a huge investment on our quest to CL in lamela is probably a MAJOR factor in us not achieveing the goals as a team that would make hm want to stay.

Ironic isnt it? Us being exactly what you claim we arent or rather what you say would make us look like we arent is what might have contirbuted most towards talented players leaving and not wanting to join

it was two years....nothing like "more like" infact its factually more than 2 years...only just

the injury is unfortunate...but this is part of the game, but he did have significant game time in year one..wasnt like he was completely absent from it..then he has the whole of year 2...or most of it rather. we are into year 3 and still people actually question the progression and contribution towards being an elite contributor , one that we shouldnt be able to do without

if you knew before hand that you would outlay 30 mill and into your 3rd year you wouldnt get much progression ,your stock would have halved with ONLY hope and positive thinking as the factors influencing a potential positive upswing, other investments from competitors are surpassing yours significantly while you hold on to your fast depreciating most costly asset......you'd still be like "yep, i'll sacrifice my clubs record fee for that asset"

personally i wouldnt

 

[africanspurs]

why do we care what Gomes and people that DIDNT succeed with us here have to say anyway?

What did modric, bale, carrick, defoe say about us for instance?

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think even his biggest defenders here would pay 30m for him if given the chance to go back - 2 years and not looking like value for money at all... That's not to say he can't improve or hasn't shown more than what many are reluctant to admit

 

[parklane1]

I wrote this below about Lamela not so long ago and I still feel the same way, he has only played 38 prem games for us ( not sure how many of them were as a sub or starter). I would still keep him for now and see what happens.



I am still undecided about Lamela and have been since we signed him. I have never been a fan of Italian football ( too slow and boring for me) so I had never seen Lamela before we bought him. I thought at the time it was a hell of a lot money to spend on a kid who I knew nothing about, however I felt that there were comments by fans who's opinion I respect who were saying he will be a big star in the future. and it"s only fair to give him the time to see how he plays.

Two seasons on I have seen some good things from him but also some poor things so I am still not sure if he will ever be the big thing. At the moment I believe we should give him another season and see how it turns out, however if it is the same after that I think we should move on and sell him.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

@glorygloryeze - Whilst I take your point, I don't think that it will be a factor really in attracting young footballers. If Lamela had done well and we ended up selling him to a CL team then it will have only helped our cause in attracting young players because effectively they could see that if they joined us and we didn't get CL, we would let them go and achieve their dreams (more money) elsewhere. The fact that it didn't work out, I think has not so much effect in that it is not negative. Kind of "meh".

Footballers nowadays just follow the money and want to get to that holy grail of £250k a week, for the most part. Anything else is just flimflam to the crowds. They can kiss as many badges as they want, but in reality the only a few players have turned down extra money from "bigger clubs" to stay where they are and play in a team that they love. You are more likely to get that from home-grown players imho, but even then the "ambitions" need to be matched. If we continue to finish just outside the top 4 or even in it, then we will always be seen as a good punt for them to build their careers. Poch's faith in youngsters will only help that.

What I do agree with you on is that there is something prevalent within not just our support, but wider, that seems to lack patience in players. The period by which players are written off is shortening by the month. It is this that I think is not condusive to a successful team. Players will play better with a voracious, loud, unerring support throughout. Players often talk about the crowd being their twelth man. A number of players have talked about the atmosphere at WHL not being as great as it should be and a number say how good it is when it's working for them. Whilst I don't agree with the way with which they say this, I think there is merit in that.

Any young player is going to be nervous playing in the PL. It's the culmination of a dream, they're playing with or against players that they have previously idolised and in a stadium they have wanted to for a number of years. Cursing them and moaning at their every mistake can only have a negative effect on their performance. It's certainly not going to spur them on! People will say they should be professional etc.... but I ask in whatever job you have, if every mistake you made was highlighted by those around you in the way that it is delivered in the crowd, I'm sure you wouldn't perform that well, but also you wouldn't have a loyalty to the place. I know I certainly would be of the opinion "fudge em."

I truly believe if we were super positive during the game, roaring them on, they would feel like legends. That will inspire loyalty in at least some of the players. I am perfectly happy and respect the right of high paying supporters to express whatever opinion they want. I would rather it be done at the end of the game or the end of the half, rather than all the way through. If a player is playing like brick, they're our brick. Let's save our vitriol for the other team's players. Let's cheer everyone of their mistakes.

There are two reasons why I have started to lose my love for the game; lack of loyalty of players always chasing more and more money, and the sense of entitlement to immediate success that football fans in general have. This is different to me going to the theatre to be entertained. I've signed up to supporting Spurs for the rest of my life, so it's not as if I can just go and support another team. My personal view is that if we want our players to show a loyalty to us, we should show a loyalty to them. They're our team at the end of the day.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think your last comment is hear say, plus the rumors of eriksen leaving are actually more to do with what every footballer wants..and that is success. Nothing wrong with that surely but has next to nothing to do with the development of young talent in the way you say might hinder us attracting them.
Infact its probably his success with us that has propelled him to make those comments and feel that clubs would be interested.
Not to mention that the possible lack of progression on a huge investment on our quest to CL in lamela is probably a MAJOR factor in us not achieveing the goals as a team that would make hm want to stay.

Ironic isnt it? Us being exactly what you claim we arent or rather what you say would make us look like we arent is what might have contirbuted most towards talented players leaving and not wanting to join

it was two years....nothing like "more like" infact its factually more than 2 years...only just

the injury is unfortunate...but this is part of the game, but he did have significant game time in year one..wasnt like he was completely absent from it..then he has the whole of year 2...or most of it rather. we are into year 3 and still people actually question the progression and contribution towards being an elite contributor , one that we shouldnt be able to do without

if you knew before hand that you would outlay 30 mill and into your 3rd year you wouldnt get much progression ,your stock would have halved with ONLY hope and positive thinking as the factors influencing a potential positive upswing, other investments from competitors are surpassing yours significantly while you hold on to your fast depreciating most costly asset......you'd still be like "yep, i'll sacrifice my clubs record fee for that asset"

personally i wouldnt

I think we have to be careful how we are seen to deal with young players, especially those from Latin countries, where we may end up having to shop to get the REAL value in future (once our academy pool is spent). It is easy to overplay how well regarded we are by young players outside the British isles. I don't think our model of growth can afford to be seen as a no-no by young players from those regions. Remember Dos Santos failed, and it is/was seen to be due to HIS lack of focus. If Lamela is added to the 'list', given his hard graft/effort, how can we be seen then?

Also, It's one thing shipping out the likes of Soldado etc who are older and have issues related to 'depreciating value'. But is it a guarantee that a young 22/23 year old will depreciate into what is his third year? Can we guarantee his value wont double by the end of this season?
Wasn't it about this time in Bale's period with us that many were calling him a donkey?
Do we discard every young player who is 'under-performing' by the start of his third year with us?
If Eriksen forces his way out (yes, i agree hearsay) within a short time of Lamela leaving, do you not think that will look odd on the club (given the two different spectrums that they are being judged on in terms of their performances in our colours)?
If we break our transfer record on a very young player from overseas do you not think we should invest in them a bit more time than a 28/29 year old equivalent?
Also, what is the harm in waiting until January? Lemela has started the season below the level he left us last and he wouldn't be the first player that has started the season poorly so why can't we see if he improves in the next few months? Surely the depreciation wont be much different to how we think it is now?

 

[glorygloryeze]

@Gazzasrightboot I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
My main point re Lamela and him or any other young player 'failing' is that the 'failing' itself is not the issue. It's how patient we are seen to be especially when it was US who really turned the screw to persuade him to come to us in the first place. From what i remember reading at the time he actually wanted to stay at Roma and it was Baldini's 'charms' (lol) that enabled us to persuade him to come here. We showed such faith in a young player by even breaking our transfer fee record to bring him here.

From such faith to then letting him go when he has barely been available to play for two years (due in part to injury) so effectively he's being judged on one full season, when he was nowhere near as bad as some other young players we've had in their first seasons.
It's for that reason i would give him another year to see if there is a major upturn, though i would accept that if he's had plenty of chances by January and still under-performs on the whole i would accept it if he left then.
But not now.

 

[DublinSpur]

The guy certainly splits opinion.

My own view - for what it's worth - is that we should let him return to Italy if the opportunity is there. Both for us, and for the player. The idea that this would be perceived as a lack of support - or patience - with the player doesn't wash (imo). If we believe the media, it's Lamela himself who wants the move.

And I completely understand why... he's still a young player, but he should be starting to hit his prime pretty soon. If I were him I'd be concerned that my career could stall if I have another poor season, and he probably thinks (as do I - as do most people if they're honest) that he has a much better chance of finding his past form back in Italy and getting things back on track.

My gut feeling is that he simply won't make it at Spurs. I always said he needed to start impressing by the end of last season. And - for me - he didn't. He's never had a single match where I felt he was the best player on the field. Not even close. If I recall correctly, even the "rabona" goal was a highlight from an otherwise decent performance - not a stellar one.

For me he's a lot like Paulinho (hear me out... I'll explain what I mean by that). When Paulinho arrived, his first few games for us were punctuated by moments of sublime skill. I was convinced we had a world class player on our hands, just waiting to emerge. But it never happened. And not only did those moments of greatness fail to translate into great performances, but even they started to get rarer and rarer. That - for me - sums up Lamela. Those initial glimpses of brilliance have disappeared. I can speculate as to the reason (he's feeling under huge pressure and is playing with too much fear and anxiety as a result... which is the last thing a flair player needs) but ultimately that's all it is - speculation. Opinion.

That's all we have to go on... gut feeling; opinion; personal judgement; whatever. And mine is that he's not going to make it at Spurs. That his best - perhaps only - chance at resurrecting his career is to get back to the league where everything was working for him (see also: Soldado scoring on his debut back in Spain). At the start of last season I was sure he would be a contender for player of the season... that we would see top quality performances from him by the end of the year. And I remember writing on this very forum, that we should consider selling him if that didn't happen. And sadly I've not seen any reason to revise that view.

I'm as disappointed as anyone. But if we let him go I don't think we'll suffer as a team, and it'll be better for the kid.

 

[africanspurs]

I think we have to be careful how we are seen to deal with young players, especially those from Latin countries, where we may end up having to shop to get the REAL value in future (once our academy pool is spent). It is easy to overplay how well regarded we are by young players outside the British isles. I don't think our model of growth can afford to be seen as a no-no by young players from those regions. Remember Dos Santos failed, and it is/was seen to be due to HIS lack of focus. If Lamela is added to the 'list', given his hard graft/effort, how can we be seen then?

Also, It's one thing shipping out the likes of Soldado etc who are older and have issues related to 'depreciating value'. But is it a guarantee that a young 22/23 year old will depreciate into what is his third year? Can we guarantee his value wont double by the end of this season?
Wasn't it about this time in Bale's period with us that many were calling him a donkey?
Do we discard every young player who is 'under-performing' by the start of his third year with us?
If Eriksen forces his way out (yes, i agree hearsay) within a short time of Lamela leaving, do you not think that will look odd on the club (given the two different spectrums that they are being judged on in terms of their performances in our colours)?
If we break our transfer record on a very young player from overseas do you not think we should invest in them a bit more time than a 28/29 year old equivalent?
Also, what is the harm in waiting until January? Lemela has started the season below the level he left us last and he wouldn't be the first player that has started the season poorly so why can't we see if he improves in the next few months? Surely the depreciation wont be much different to how we think it is now?

i'm not saying sell. but i am saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling if we do decide to sell

the bale comparison again is far off at least for me. I never thought bale was a donkey........i saw plenty from bale to say that he had rare talent but i did see alot of confidence problems which i didnt know if he could overcome...plus ..and diego with testify...... i always say him as being moved further forward..or the attacking full back against park the bus opposition...plus i am pretty sure bale did not have as much time as lamela did in the first couple of years while still showing more promise than lamela

one thing i will give you is that we probably should give a young player more time than an older one......but just cause we have ade here for ages doesnt mean that we should keep all young players for one or two more years after he has been sold

i personally dont care either way if we keep or sell lamela...but me being indifferent in iteslf is telling.

and for his value to DOUBLE?? wow...you realise that anywhere near that would mean than he would have to have a Hazard-esque year MINIMUM. he would literally have to dominate this league to perform to a 60 million pound player......i havent seen anything of him to suggest he is that yet

 

[hodsgod]

I wrote this below about Lamela not so long ago and I still feel the same way, he has only played 38 prem games for us ( not sure how many of them were as a sub or starter). I would still keep him for now and see what happens.



I am still undecided about Lamela and have been since we signed him. I have never been a fan of Italian football ( too slow and boring for me) so I had never seen Lamela before we bought him. I thought at the time it was a hell of a lot money to spend on a kid who I knew nothing about, however I felt that there were comments by fans who's opinion I respect who were saying he will be a big star in the future. and it"s only fair to give him the time to see how he plays.

Two seasons on I have seen some good things from him but also some poor things so I am still not sure if he will ever be the big thing. At the moment I believe we should give him another season and see how it turns out, however if it is the same after that I think we should move on and sell him.

He has only played 38 games because he isn't that good and hasn't earned his place. It's up to him to play his way into the team.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

The reality is that this guy has looked clueless in the EPL, pretty much from day one. Sure he had some okay performances in the Europa league, but not in the comp that matters. There has been no sudden turn around since Stoke either. Many posters had their doubts from the minute he arrived. He needed too much time and space, always took one touch too many, gave away silly free kicks etc.

 

[parklane1]

He has only played 38 games because he isn't that good and hasn't earned his place. It's up to him to play his way into the team.

Did I say any different?

 

[SpursNorway]

He has only played 38 games because he isn't that good and hasn't earned his place. It's up to him to play his way into the team.

AND, he was injured for about half of his first season.

 

[SpurMeUp]

A question for those who think we should keep hold: what do you say to Townsend, Pritchard, Ali, Dembele and Njie when you start Lamela? Sorry you are not good enough I will be sticking with Lamela? If Lamela stays he will become a problem for Poch. He needs games, but not with us.

 

[glorygloryeze]

A question for those who think we should keep hold: what do you say to Townsend, Pritchard, Ali, Dembele and Njie when you start Lamela? Sorry you are not good enough I will be sticking with Lamela? If Lamela stays he will become a problem for Poch. He needs games, but not with us.

We have a meritocracy don't we?
If Lamela starts ahead of those guys in the coming season it will surely be because he is playing better than them at the time, no?

Before any smartasses mention Leicester, i say again, it was logical he started ahead of the following:

* Townsend - injured
* Pritchard, Alli, N'Jie - no PL experience yet; in the case of Pritchard coming back from an injury, in the case of N'Jie getting up to speed re training etc
* Dembele - he started alongside him, but if he starts ahead of him, would that be a shock seeing as Dembele has about 4 assists in 3 years?

 

[billyiddo]

We have a meritocracy don't we?
If Lamela starts ahead of those guys in the coming season it will surely be because he is playing better than them at the time, no?

Before any smartasses mention Leicester, i say again, it was logical he started ahead of the following:

* Townsend - injured
* Pritchard, Alli, N'Jie - no PL experience yet; in the case of Pritchard coming back from an injury, in the case of N'Jie getting up to speed re training etc
* Dembele - he started alongside him, but if he starts ahead of him, would that be a shock seeing as Dembele has about 4 assists in 3 years?

Yeah, he was the best option for most of last season and played better than Townsend for the most part, Townsend got his chance with a good run of games (because Lamela was average at best and there was always the possibility that AT could have usurped him) but ultimately he proved to be the better of the two - no reason to think Poch would play him consistently this season if there were better options available to him

 

[SpurMeUp]

We have a meritocracy don't we?
If Lamela starts ahead of those guys in the coming season it will surely be because he is playing better than them at the time, no?

Before any smartasses mention Leicester, i say again, it was logical he started ahead of the following:

* Townsend - injured
* Pritchard, Alli, N'Jie - no PL experience yet; in the case of Pritchard coming back from an injury, in the case of N'Jie getting up to speed re training etc
* Dembele - he started alongside him, but if he starts ahead of him, would that be a shock seeing as Dembele has about 4 assists in 3 years?

Put it another way, would you pick Lamela as first choice on the wing? Dembele has played well there last few games. Would N'jie be behind both? And Pritchard behind all 3? Of course there are other positions these players can cover. But you said it yourself, Poch like a meritocracy, and for me other players deserve a chance over Lamela.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Moreover, we seem to have forgotten that Dembele is starting ahead of Lamela, presumably on merit.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Put it another way, would you pick Lamela as first choice on the wing? Dembele has played well there last few games. Would N'jie be behind both? And Pritchard behind all 3? Of course there are other positions these players can cover. But you said it yourself, Poch like a meritocracy, and for me other players deserve a chance over Lamela.

Right now these playrs deserve a chance over Lamela. But he, like any player, can play his way back in.