I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[glasgowspur]

Yes but the statistic doesnt differentiate between a corner that your centre half heads against the crossbar and a corner that hits the first man, both are chances created.

By that model and ball booted in the opposition half is a chance.

A corner is a corner, if you score from it its an assist, its not always a chance.

There a difference between a ball played into the box a ball hoofed into anywhere in the oppositions half.

 

[Vega]

There a difference between a ball played into the box a ball hoofed into anywhere in the oppositions half.

Nope they are both chances created, its the degree to which they are a chance that differs.

 

[scaramanga]

Nope they are both chances created, its the degree to which they are a chance that differs.

And Lamela's stats from last season showed that his chances were the most likely to be converted out of any of our players I believe.

 

[Vega]

And Lamela's stats from last season showed that his chances were the most likely to be converted out of any of our players I believe.

So in essence he puts in a good corner, which i think to be fair to the guy he does do a lot of the time.

 

[Bullet]

Yes but the statistic doesnt differentiate between a corner that your centre half heads against the crossbar and a corner that hits the first man, both are chances created.

I thought it did, the first is a chance because it led to a pot at goal, the second is not a chance as it was cleared. But I agree, taking a corner that hits a colleagues head is a pretty simple way of getting a point in the plus column.

 

[Baleforce]

But a corner is a corner, it isnt a chance. Otherwise every long ball through the middle would be a chance surely? A free kick from your own half towards goal with the centre halves up, is that a chance?

I do agree that his corners are probably the best part of his game though. And we have had some terrible corner takers.

it's a chance if a players gets an attempt at goal from it surely

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

it's a chance if a players gets an attempt at goal from it surely

I agree but also understand that it is perhaps not as good a chance as perhaps a through ball etc.... Having said all of that, it would be the same for any other corner taker so it shouldn't prevent being able to make a comparison with another creative player that takes corners.

All of this is purely academic though as it is obvious Lamela has not performed to our expectations. The difference of opinions is whether he can "come good" and that can only be proved one way. I know all of us would like for him to prove everyone wrong and come good, but that will be tough in a team that is struggling. He's far away from a Bale or VdV that could create something out of nothing.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Often the 'chance' has more to do with the efforts of the receiver in even getting to the ball, than the player taking the corner. This was certainly true in the case of Dier.

 

[P.D.]

He showed one tremendous bit of skill down the left hand side in the second half where he collected it span and then shimmied past a player, avoided another and laid it off to Kane but the move broke down after that. Was stupendously good touch though.

The game was very congested, no space at all and him playing central meant he couldn't get on the call but showed a couple of nice touches when he drifted out wide. I'm surprised Dembele didn't swap with him and move central. Due to the way Leicester played he would have seen plenty of the ball outwide.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not defending lamella per se but there was a lot of moans for long enough when we didn't have corner taker who couldn't clear the first man. Now we a decent corner taker the chances don't count?

Just saying

Unfortunately this isn't the NFL where you can have a player set in a specialized position like a kicker or punter who only comes on the field or pitch at certain times in the match.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree but also understand that it is perhaps not as good a chance as perhaps a through ball etc.... Having said all of that, it would be the same for any other corner taker so it shouldn't prevent being able to make a comparison with another creative player that takes corners.

All of this is purely academic though as it is obvious Lamela has not performed to our expectations. The difference of opinions is whether he can "come good" and that can only be proved one way. I know all of us would like for him to prove everyone wrong and come good, but that will be tough in a team that is struggling. He's far away from a Bale or VdV that could create something out of nothing.

I think the difference is Bale was at least showing SOME potential even when he wasn't the world class player he later became during AVB's first season. Lamela has only showed glimpses in a tiny handful of games.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I think the difference is Bale was at least showing SOME potential even when he wasn't the world class player he later became during AVB's first season. Lamela has only showed glimpses in a tiny handful of games.

I think we will be going round in circles on this one . I have said that he is far away from a Bale of VdV. But I do think that he has a potential to be a good player. That is where there is a difference of opinion.

 

[scaramanga]

I think we will be going round in circles on this one . I have said that he is far away from a Bale of VdV. But I do think that he has a potential to be a good player. That is where there is a difference of opinion.

I agree with that. Also, anyone expecting any of our players to be as good as Bale or a fit VdV will only ever be setting up our players for failure.

 

[glasgowspur]

Unfortunately this isn't the NFL where you can have a player set in a specialized position like a kicker or punter who only comes on the field or pitch at certain times in the match.

You're missing my point, when we didn't have a corner taker who could clear the first man there was a lot of moans because we created nothing from corners. Now that someone can it doesn't count as a chance, which is it?
Ignore that it's lamella (I know it's his post)
Are comers properly taken chances or not? Or are Spurs just to fickle?

 

[Vega]

You're missing my point, when we didn't have a corner taker who could clear the first man there was a lot of moans because we created nothing from corners. Now that someone can it doesn't count as a chance, which is it?
Ignore that it's lamella (I know it's his post)
Are comers properly taken chances or not? Or are Spurs just to fickle?

How do you guarantee that its going to be properly taken? It's recorded as a chance regardless of whether a centre half meets it with his head or indeed its headed away by the first defender.

My point has more to do with corners should count as corners and not chances created.

As i have said Lamela can deliver a good corner, the problem i have with him is everything else he does when he is not taking the corner.

 

[glasgowspur]

How do you guarantee that its going to be properly taken? It's recorded as a chance regardless of whether a centre half meets it with his head or indeed its headed away by the first defender.

My point has more to do with corners should count as corners and not chances created.

As i have said Lamela can deliver a good corner, the problem i have with him is everything else he does when he is not taking the corner.

I was answering Juergen.
But as I have also pointed out repeatedly I'm not talking about lamella but about corners.
The main thrust of my argument, that I'm obviously NOT getting across very well, is stats are over used to make points that are questionable.
Humour and subtlety don't always transfer very well in forums and in this case it obviously hasn't worked.

 

[Vega]

I was answering Juergen.
But as I have also pointed out repeatedly I'm not talking about lamella but about corners.
The main thrust of my argument, that I'm obviously NOT getting across very well, is stats are over used to make points that are questionable.
Humour and subtlety don't always transfer very well in forums and in this case it obviously hasn't worked.

I am also making my point badly clearly cos i fully agree with you. The most common argument i see for Lamela and it was here today was "he creates loads of chances" yet that stat is built up on his corner taking.

You are fully correct when you say about our inability to take corners, we were dreadful at it for years. Lamela takes a decent corner.

 

[glasgowspur]

I am also making my point badly clearly cos i fully agree with you. The most common argument i see for Lamela and it was here today was "he creates loads of chances" yet that stat is built up on his corner taking.

You are fully correct when you say about our inability to take corners, we were dreadful at it for years. Lamela takes a decent corner.

It's ok, if ever a thread needed some humour it's this one. He's a good player but it ain't going to work here. He needs to change to much to make it work and I don't think he's got that in him. Had really big hopes for him and I'm disappointed but that's football

 

[Vega]

It's ok, if ever a thread needed some humour it's this one. He's a good player but it ain't going to work here. He needs to change to much to make it work and I don't think he's got that in him. Had really big hopes for him and I'm disappointed but that's football

Couldnt agree more. To all those saying we would only get £15m for him so lets keep him and play him in the EL, just think how little we will get after his 3rd dreadful season.

 

[Raziel]

Couldnt agree more. To all those saying we would only get £15m for him so lets keep him and play him in the EL, just think how little we will get after his 3rd dreadful season.

actually, to me its not just about the money any more.

I think we sometimes forget these people are human, and I will make the same argument for Lamela as I did for Bobby, its time for us to let them get a chance to resurrect their career.

Let them go, get back some money as part of it .. better for both parties