I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Jurgen the German]

Forgive me Jurgen, If I seem like one of those who is too protective of Lamela...... the reason, I believe in this player very much...perhaps to much but I believe in him massively all the same.

Please take my Sky, BT, people wanting him to fail comments as a bit of a rant, perhaps I did not react well to a post from Maltese Falcon...my fault not his.

I have said in other threads he needs to do more...see Wham ratings thread, I wont claim he is a regular 7-8 out of ten player every game, how do I explain this...I always think we look better when he plays in the three behind...hard to explain this.

In terms of what I see...superb control, quick feet, dribbling.....poor decision making.....I wont bang on about the Rabona but would any other member of our squad do that on instinct?

I am not going to upload clips but many times vs liverpool he dribbled past players only to be tackled by the third challenger due to hesitancy....in fact I see this so much from him...initial quick feet, close control....pulls away....hesitates then gets tackled.

My argument would be he is the most frustrating player in our squad....why does he frustrate???? because we expect more but very often he frustrates due to creating an opportunity for himself and the team and he does not capitalise on it.....no arguments from me there.

It is my belief with him that we will suffer......get frustrated but we will be rewarded in the end....patience.....not in fashion these days.....again I cant really explain why he will come good....its just something I feel in my heart......sad git that I am and of course I could be very wrong....but if I am right....I might just remember a few of you and give you a bit of a er rimming!!!

again apologies for sky/bt/fail comments....cold light of day was a bit silly.......no apologies for believing in the lad though!!!!

oh and if you dont believe in him and think he is el poo that doesnt mean I think I am a better fan than anyone else.

No need to apologise nigey.

He's certainly not short of confidence. That can be both a good thing and a bad thing, ahem Nicklas Bendtner. As to whether he is the most skilful player in the squad, I couldn't say fully as we don't see what they can do in training, but from what have seen, he is not afraid to try the spectacular. That's part of the issue for me, I don't think he will be anywhere near the level of Ronaldo, but he does need to work on his decision making like Ronaldo did and perhaps be a bit more direct and not attempt the impossible so much.

 

[scaramanga]

I could count the number of times he has actually beaten a man dribbling, such is the rarity of success he achieves.

So can I, it's precisely 2.44 times per 90. AKA 4 times as often per 90 than Townsend, 1.6 times as often as Eriksen and 1.8 times as many as Chadli. That makes him the second most effective at taking on other players out of all our options for the 3 behind Kane (second to Dembele).

At nearly 55% he wins more of those than he loses, and is miles ahead of both Chadli and Townsend (the two other options for that wide role).

It's amazing the tricks one's mind can play. As someone far more knowledgeable than I am wrote:

Our memories are not an accurate recording of the past. They are constructed from imperfect perception filtered through our beliefs and biases, and then over time they morph and merge. Our memories serve more to support our beliefs rather than inform them

You should read the following author, I think you'll find him enlightening and very relevant to the point in hand:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/more-evidence-our-memory-stinks/

 

[Jordinho]

No need to apologise nigey.

He's certainly not short of confidence. That can be both a good thing and a bad thing, ahem Nicklas Bendtner. As to whether he is the most skilful player in the squad, I couldn't say fully as we don't see what they can do in training, but from what have seen, he is not afraid to try the spectacular. That's part of the issue for me, I don't think he will be anywhere near the level of Ronaldo, but he does need to work on his decision making like Ronaldo did and perhaps be a bit more direct and not attempt the impossible so much.

Anyone remember how long it took Ronaldo to ditch the stepovers and start showing his true ability?

 

[scaramanga]

No more so than there was towards Gareth Bale for example for his silly hair cuts.

I think all players who were gloves should be mocked. Remember when Pav wore them? He's from Russia FFS!

I think there is a level of bias towards foreigners to start with, but that bias subsidies when and if x players performs well. Luis Suarez got a caning in the press and from all quarters in general, but he won a lot of them over with his performances last season.

I think Bale got a lot more freedom from the press than most would as he was home grown and Welsh (and therefore a down to earth lad, etc.)

Your Suarez example only goes to show my point. He is one of the 10 best players in the world and one of the most expensive ever, yet it still took him a long while to turn the press around in this country.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Anyone remember how long it took Ronaldo to ditch the stepovers and start showing his true ability?

Anyone remember how long it took Ronaldo to ditch the stepovers and start showing his true ability?

Ronaldo showed more when he first came to England even if it was nothing compared to what he does now, and he was 4 years younger than Lamela. Right now, his biggest attribute appears to be his pressing. And to answer another poster's question, no i genuinely don't think he's improved much over the season, marginal at best.

What I don't understand is the need to put others down in order to big up Lamela, like Chadli for example. He's scored vital goals against our two biggest rivals and has influenced other games. I do it too I must admit and I know it's wrong.

 

[sc25]

Are you honestly saying that there's no bias against a foreigner who styles his hair and wears gloves in the winter in the British press?

I agree with you, there prolly is...and its unlikely to change anytime soon. Sooo, that being the case, he must be aware of that, right? Are you saying therefore that he isn't doing himself any favours, that you'd rather he didn't and that he'd be better served if he didn't? He is making a choice after all.

 

[scaramanga]

I agree, there prolly is...and its unlikely to change anytime soon. So, that being the case, he must be aware of that, right? Are you saying therefore that he isn't doing himself any favours, that you'd rather he didn't and that he'd be better served if he didn't? He is making a choice after all.

I'm saying that I don't give a fudge what the press/dumb fudge ex-footballers think, that I hope he doesn't and that neither should anyone else.

Unfortunately, plenty of people seem to put stock in the words (I won't go as far as to say comments as that suggests some kind of intelligent grouping of these words) that tumble from the slack-jawed gobs of Robbie Savage and Alan Shearer.

 

[Modric THFC]

So can I, it's precisely 2.44 times per 90. AKA 4 times as often per 90 than Townsend, 1.6 times as often as Eriksen and 1.8 times as many as Chadli. That makes him the second most effective at taking on other players out of all our options for the 3 behind Kane (second to Dembele).

At nearly 55% he wins more of those than he loses, and is miles ahead of both Chadli and Townsend (the two other options for that wide role).

It's amazing the tricks one's mind can play. As someone far more knowledgeable than I am wrote:


You should read the following author, I think you'll find him enlightening and very relevant to the point in hand:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/more-evidence-our-memory-stinks/

Townsends stats are embarrassing really. I didnt think they'd be that bad.

 

[mudshark]

My perspective is that he's a kid with obvious raw talent that we haven't yet seen channelled in the right way. There are many issues, I think; not least, his decision-making, but we are seeing improvement, albeit that it is pigeon-steps rather than great strides he's making at present. He still turns into trouble all the time, which I think is, at least in part, about a lack of awareness of other players around him. He used to have this sort of tick where he would flick his head exaggeratedly from side to side all the time as though gauging the positions of players in proximity, and then play a precision-pass straight to one of the opposition. He seems to have lost the tick, but still gives the ball away cheaply much too often and, for me, still needs to work on developing better awareness. It's as though he has this marvellous map in his head, onto which he charts how he is going to use the run of the ball every time it comes to him, but this grand vision contains great big blind spots with opposition players standing in them. I believe he is worth persisting with, though. He has got something. The parallel with Bale's early experience may not be unwarranted in my view.

 

[ringo]

Townsends stats are embarrassing really. I didnt think they'd be that bad.

What do the Dribble stats here represent? And what counts as a dribble succesful or unsuccessful. I note that Dembele/Eriksen and Stambouli (for example) are more successful at dribbling than Lamela.
Much as I respect stats, (and they often make me question my assumptions) on Lamela's dribbling, in the games where I have seen the full 90 minutes, my eyes definitely tell me Lamela's dribbling isn't that effective. Whereas I would have suggested Dembele as our best dribbler.

 

[ringo]

One positive thing about Lamela is that he makes good runs. Unfortunately he often doesn't get the ball when he makes the run. They are often 1-2 balls as well, and he looks like he is expecting a return pass. I have seen him go for a quick return, as he bursts into the area, several times over this and last season. The ball rarely comes back quickly enough, if at all.

I reckon at Roma there were players who knew he was likely to make that run, and automatically give him the return pass. Whereas he is not yet on the same wavelength as his teammates. I hope that is something they work on in training.

 

[Jordinho]

What do the Dribble stats here represent? And what counts as a dribble succesful or unsuccessful. I note that Dembele/Eriksen and Stambouli (for example) are more successful at dribbling than Lamela.
Much as I respect stats, (and they often make me question my assumptions) on Lamela's dribbling, in the games where I have seen the full 90 minutes, my eyes definitely tell me Lamela's dribbling isn't that effective. Whereas I would have suggested Dembele as our best dribbler.

I would assume dribbling means going past someone while in possession of the ball, which I think is easier to do in midfield if you pick your moments (less crowded/more space to run into). While Dembele is good at running with the ball, his dribbling is often extremely ineffective.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ronaldo showed more when he first came to England even if it was nothing compared to what he does now, and he was 4 years younger than Lamela. Right now, his biggest attribute appears to be his pressing. And to answer another poster's question, no i genuinely don't think he's improved much over the season, marginal at best.

What I don't understand is the need to put others down in order to big up Lamela, like Chadli for example. He's scored vital goals against our two biggest rivals and has influenced other games. I do it too I must admit and I know it's wrong.

I find it amazing that people are trying to compare him to the best players in the world now when he hasn't shown a faction of what the did at the same age or experience level

Surely his comparison should be someone like Mane who has shown already more impact in less time

Conspiring him to Ronaldo and Bale puts the poor bloke on a hiding to nothing

And you right about the people putting down Chadli.... It's tinkle poor to target him to highlight lamella runs and chases a lot

 

[Jordinho]

I find it amazing that people are trying to compare him to the best players in the world now when he hasn't shown a faction of what the did at the same age or experience level

Surely his comparison should be someone like Mane who has shown already more impact in less time

Conspiring him to Ronaldo and Bale puts the poor bloke on a hiding to nothing

And you right about the people putting down Chadli.... It's tinkle poor to target him to highlight lamella runs and chases a lot

I don't think anyone is comparing them as players, but more on how they developed and the time it took.

How about those that bring up players with bettet stats in certain areas to put DOWN Lamela (or others as applicable) stop doing that as well?

We know he hasn't scored as many goals as Eriksen for instance, but it doesn't mean he's useless or hasn't made key contributions.

 

[Nigeyman]

I find it amazing that people are trying to compare him to the best players in the world now when he hasn't shown a faction of what the did at the same age or experience level

Surely his comparison should be someone like Mane who has shown already more impact in less time

Conspiring him to Ronaldo and Bale puts the poor bloke on a hiding to nothing

And you right about the people putting down Chadli.... It's tinkle poor to target him to highlight lamella runs and chases a lot

The main reason I spoke of Bale & Kane is they are prime examples where being patient with players has really worked for us.

He was sensational for Roma and broke into the Argentinian national team at a very young age and we both know the talented attacking players that nation possesses. I really believe there is much more to come from him with his ability.

I am confused though you state we are putting him on a hiding to nothing....in an earlier post you stated you wanted us to upgrade on him even though he has not played 25 league games for us....that would not inspire confidence in him I am sure you would agree. He has had effectively 3 quarters of a season not entirely injury free....I am writing of the first season btw.

So are you miffed we are not giving the guy a chance???? or perhaps raising expectations???? just seems wierd as this seems to be the angle from your previous posts. Many on here just want to see how things play out...while other just want to write him off.....which in my opinion is far to early in his spurs career to do that.

I think we all can go ott on our reactions to player peformances.....I havent tinkled Chadli btw. I like to think I am fair.....I have not said he is a world beater only that I believe in his ability and that he will come good for us.

I would like to think we could both revisit this thread in the near future and either one of us would be humble enough to perhaps admit they were a little bit hasty.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think Bale got a lot more freedom from the press than most would as he was home grown and Welsh (and therefore a down to earth lad, etc.)

Your Suarez example only goes to show my point. He is one of the 10 best players in the world and one of the most expensive ever, yet it still took him a long while to turn the press around in this country.

Well Suarez has only been one of the 10 best players in the world for about 2 seasons. He also was and is a complete scumbag so that influenced people's opinions of him. i think initially foreign players have a point to prove to English journalists for some reason "our premier league is better than any other league" etc but I believe that eventually goes away once they prove themselves

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re people comparing him Bale, Gareth Bale had something about him even before redknapp took over. Those first few games under Ramos, I felt he was the only player who could get us out of trouble. Bale is more skilful, a better athlete, better finisher, better in the air, even before he took off.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Oh I see good things in him. His work rate is great and he currently is our best option on the right however there are players out there who have performed arguably better than cost less and have settled quicker (mane being an example)

People are making excuses for where he is struggling but has delivered elsewhere e.g goals

A worrying thing for me with that is that he rarely looks like scoring

I also states earlier that if he improves a manner akin to Chaldi who I thought was a waste of a place last season then great. If he deposit then he will lose his place to Protchard IMO

Ferguson made a comment a few years back about vdv... He said he scores important goals and assists in that there the first goal or last goal in a 2-1 win. It's why I don't rate Walcott highly as invariably he scores the last goals in a 4 nil win

Lamella hasn't yet delivered where it counts and until he does he will be a maybe player. One who maybe good to maybe not...

And this isn't me being nasty he has been here two years irrelevant of the number of gamesz he has improved this season too. He needs to up the rate of improvement though otherwise he will be upgraded on

 

[thfcsteff]

One positive thing about Lamela is that he makes good runs. Unfortunately he often doesn't get the ball when he makes the run. They are often 1-2 balls as well, and he looks like he is expecting a return pass. I have seen him go for a quick return, as he bursts into the area, several times over this and last season. The ball rarely comes back quickly enough, if at all.

I reckon at Roma there were players who knew he was likely to make that run, and automatically give him the return pass. Whereas he is not yet on the same wavelength as his teammates. I hope that is something they work on in training.

Bobby has suffered from lack of quick return too...I agree wholeheartedly incidentally, I have seen him slip into some great spaces only to see someone like Dembele take a few touches and lose the moment.

 

[thfcsteff]

Oh I see good things in him. His work rate is great and he currently is our best option on the right however there are players out there who have performed arguably better than cost less and have settled quicker (mane being an example)

People are making excuses for where he is struggling but has delivered elsewhere e.g goals

A worrying thing for me with that is that he rarely looks like scoring

I also states earlier that if he improves a manner akin to Chaldi who I thought was a waste of a place last season then great. If he deposit then he will lose his place to Protchard IMO

Ferguson made a comment a few years back about vdv... He said he scores important goals and assists in that there the first goal or last goal in a 2-1 win. It's why I don't rate Walcott highly as invariably he scores the last goals in a 4 nil win

Lamella hasn't yet delivered where it counts and until he does he will be a maybe player. One who maybe good to maybe not...

And this isn't me being nasty he has been here two years irrelevant of the number of gamesz he has improved this season too. He needs to up the rate of improvement though otherwise he will be upgraded on

Have to pick you on this post mate (in the spirit of debate )...

To the first point in bold, proof positive that you should take a breath and see if you really believe there's a player there before judging.
That second point, it's funny, I think generally VdV constructed a wonderful 'cult ' here but was actually disappointing in talent-versus-time-versus-delivery ratio. He scored a few big derby goals, but when we really needed him he was not there! he did not score at Villa away when we played the game in their half, he did nothing at the Bernabeau, and he was pretty much always off the pitch by the 70th minute. I am going to get coated I know, but if ever you wanted a player who played for himself first and foremost. I liked him but never loved him.
That third point, I think he is still 21? VdV was what, 28, 29 when he came to us?
That fourth point, clearly explained in other posts with context, so I can only assume you wish to ignore them.

It's clear you don't rate him mate, it's clear some of us do. As ever, let us hope Spurs benefits from a top player continuing to bloom and that he matures into a gem.