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Harry Kane MBE

Raziel said:
No question, but he is also a guy who can set up a hattrick of assists in a single game.

In a side that is struggling for creativity but has plenty of strikers (Son, Lucas, Dele) is it worth a try?
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None of them are strikers and that is what we've been trying.

Only way to keep him high and central is for others to stay high and wide, as soon as they go central Kane drops deeper. Playing wide men like that as well negates the need for as much creativity in the middle of the pitch cause you break the attack down to individual battles and then bet on your wide men beating the full/centre backs at some point. Liverpool are a case in point. Mane and Salah repeatedly just go at the defence and 95% of the time fail. The 5% results in goals.
 
Raziel said:
No question, but he is also a guy who can set up a hattrick of assists in a single game.

In a side that is struggling for creativity but has plenty of strikers (Son, Lucas, Dele) is it worth a try?
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No, not for me.

Its a nice plan B, a nice tactical option, its not something to try and establish as the norm.

Logically, we do this and what happens? Kane plays deep, Son/Moura ahead, and we start scoring goals/winning games. Then what?

We stay like it forever? Or at some point we have to try and establish a proper set up and move Kane forward again. Then what? Results are bumpy and were back where we started?

Surely its better to get the best out of our best players from the off, even if it takes a bit of a period to establish it.

We know Kane is best up front. We know Son works best off the left. If it aint broke...
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
No, not for me.

Its a nice plan B, a nice tactical option, its not something to try and establish as the norm.

Logically, we do this and what happens? Kane plays deep, Son/Moura ahead, and we start scoring goals/winning games. Then what?

We stay like it forever? Or at some point we have to try and establish a proper set up and move Kane forward again. Then what? Results are bumpy and were back where we started?

Surely its better to get the best out of our best players from the off, even if it takes a bit of a period to establish it.

We know Kane is best up front. We know Son works best off the left. If it aint broke...
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Two points

- We use the plan B till the midfield problem is solved
- It is broke, as @fernadez said Pool leverages their strikers with much more success than us. Again one of my current gripes with Poch is in the last 20 odd PL games with a front line of Son, Kane, Lucas, and Dele, Eriksen and Lamela backing them up we have had way too many 1 or 2 goal games, that lineup should regularly beat side by 3 or 4 as Pool does
 
Raziel said:
Two points

- We use the plan B till the midfield problem is solved
- It is broke, as @fernadez said Pool leverages their strikers with much more success than us. Again one of my current gripes with Poch is in the last 20 odd PL games with a front line of Son, Kane, Lucas, and Dele, Eriksen and Lamela backing them up we have had way too many 1 or 2 goal games, that lineup should regularly beat side by 3 or 4 as Pool does
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- Plan B when Plan A really should be working is just kicking the can down the road, not for me.

- If it is broke, its fixable. I think Poch is a greater issue right now than any squad problem. In that he keeps persisting with selections/formations that do not work. Put it this way, if Poch was sacked tomorrow and replaced by Klopp (spit) do you think we would continue to have the same issues in attack? I certainly do not. No new players required to do better than we are now. That being the case, plan B is a bodge, no thanks.
 
Raziel said:
So serious question.

- When Kane first started playing well for us there was a regular debate of him being more of a Teddy type player, i.e. 2nd Striker, not the guy up front.
- However his clinical nature has made everyone assume he's the finisher.

Looking at how well he seems to work with Sterling (Rashford and others as well if they could finish), is it worth seeing if we play Lucas/Son in centre/front of him? (instead of just the occasional run beyond they do now?)
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You do know I suggested this yesterday in the Poch thread (to try and add a potential Poch avenue and steer off the toxicity developing)? I can tell you it was not well-received.
I stand by my assertion that SHORT-TERM (until at least Dele finds form) it is worth doing. We can allow Dele and Son to play either side with Lucas up top and the four can interchange at will.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
- Plan B when Plan A really should be working is just kicking the can down the road, not for me.

- If it is broke, its fixable. I think Poch is a greater issue right now than any squad problem. In that he keeps persisting with selections/formations that do not work. Put it this way, if Poch was sacked tomorrow and replaced by Klopp (spit) do you think we would continue to have the same issues in attack? I certainly do not. No new players required to do better than we are now. That being the case, plan B is a bodge, no thanks.
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Yes we would.
Liverpool rely heavily on TAA and Robertson. We don't have FBs of any repute right now. In order to get the very best out of our play/system, we need Fbs of that quality. Or at least half-decent. Without them we cannot play diamonds, effective 4-2-3-1s, etc, etc. I feel sorry for Poch that he was robbed of Foyth (who he had earmarked for the role) and Sess remains a crock. Aurier has proven himself unstable and KWP not quite good enough, whilst Rose's decline has been sad to see (albeit his spirit is great). Davies? I have not a clue.
 
thfcsteff said:
Yes we would.
Liverpool rely heavily on TAA and Robertson. We don't have FBs of any repute right now. In order to get the very best out of our play/system, we need Fbs of that quality. Or at least half-decent. Without them we cannot play diamonds, effective 4-2-3-1s, etc, etc. I feel sorry for Poch that he was robbed of Foyth (who he had earmarked for the role) and Sess remains a crock. Aurier has proven himself unstable and KWP not quite good enough, whilst Rose's decline has been sad to see (albeit his spirit is great). Davies? I have not a clue.
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The thing is I just don't see Foyth as being a full back option for either the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 where the fullback has to provide all of the attacking width.... Seems a very square peg for a round hole to me?!?
 
Finney Is Back said:
The thing is I just don't see Foyth as being a full back option for either the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 where the fullback has to provide all of the attacking width.... Seems a very square peg for a round hole to me?!?
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Foyth technically is a very good footballer
I can’t remember what game it was last season where he came on at RB but he was dribbling through the opposition like a winger .... I think it was Ajax at home
I think we have a lot of fans under estimating what Poch sees in him
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Foyth technically is a very good footballer
I can’t remember what game it was last season where he came on at RB but he was dribbling through the opposition like a winger .... I think it was Ajax at home
I think we have a lot of fans under estimating what Poch sees in him
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It's not his technical ability that concerns me really.... it's whether or not he has the page and athleticism to play that fullback role. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
 
thfcsteff said:
Yes we would.
Liverpool rely heavily on TAA and Robertson. We don't have FBs of any repute right now. In order to get the very best out of our play/system, we need Fbs of that quality. Or at least half-decent. Without them we cannot play diamonds, effective 4-2-3-1s, etc, etc. I feel sorry for Poch that he was robbed of Foyth (who he had earmarked for the role) and Sess remains a crock. Aurier has proven himself unstable and KWP not quite good enough, whilst Rose's decline has been sad to see (albeit his spirit is great). Davies? I have not a clue.
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That is my fundamental disagreement

- We are continuing to persist with trying to play in a way that is heavily reliant on quality FBs (which we don't have) but, that is not the only way to play.
- Klopp did not have TAA & Robertson at the start, fundamentally his style is get the ball to the front 3 as quickly as possibly over and over, with the wrong back line (his in beginning) it meant scoring and conceding, with improvements (keeper, CB, FB) it means winning by large margins.

The second point is my main issue right now, lets say I buy into all the apologists that somehow overnight Jan/Toby are brick, our FBs aren't good enough and we have no DM, ok. Well what do we have? 6 very good attacking players, with two of the best finishers in the league. Why don't we leverage that? Instead we have a side that is neither defending nor scoring at it's full potential.
 
thfcsteff said:
Yes we would.
Liverpool rely heavily on TAA and Robertson. We don't have FBs of any repute right now. In order to get the very best out of our play/system, we need Fbs of that quality. Or at least half-decent. Without them we cannot play diamonds, effective 4-2-3-1s, etc, etc. I feel sorry for Poch that he was robbed of Foyth (who he had earmarked for the role) and Sess remains a crock. Aurier has proven himself unstable and KWP not quite good enough, whilst Rose's decline has been sad to see (albeit his spirit is great). Davies? I have not a clue.
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I agree with Finney, I dont think Foyth is that FB. Though KWP could be, if only someone was prepared to work with him until they found a better alternative...

And I disagree with you. While you are right and Fbs could well hamsting Klopp, I still think he would have us attacking much much more effectively. Using pace, using the width of the pitch, and using round pegs in round holes.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I agree with Finney, I dont think Foyth is that FB. Though KWP could be, if only someone was prepared to work with him until they found a better alternative...

And I disagree with you. While you are right and Fbs could well hamsting Klopp, I still think he would have us attacking much much more effectively. Using pace, using the width of the pitch, and using round pegs in round holes.
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That first bit is no surprise, we aren't agreeing on anything right now!!! :)...as for Klopp, look at how his side is set up. For pace and power above all. It is about obduracy not prettiness. Speed and power.

Who would supply the wide pace right now beyond Sonny? If you are suggesting Moura, then I have to say we disagree, because whenever Moura has played wide, he gets lost!

What is YOUR suggestion?
 
Raziel said:
That is my fundamental disagreement

- We are continuing to persist with trying to play in a way that is heavily reliant on quality FBs (which we don't have) but, that is not the only way to play.
- Klopp did not have TAA & Robertson at the start, fundamentally his style is get the ball to the front 3 as quickly as possibly over and over, with the wrong back line (his in beginning) it meant scoring and conceding, with improvements (keeper, CB, FB) it means winning by large margins.

The second point is my main issue right now, lets say I buy into all the apologists that somehow overnight Jan/Toby are brick, our FBs aren't good enough and we have no DM, ok. Well what do we have? 6 very good attacking players, with two of the best finishers in the league. Why don't we leverage that? Instead we have a side that is neither defending nor scoring at it's full potential.
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Focus and concentration has remained our greatest enemy (and some terrible finishing BTW, I have not seen Sonny miss more chances in a season).
2-0 up at the Filth. 1-0 up at Leicester and robbed of a legit second goal. 4 more points if our players did not collapse.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine? a poor performance overall, that one was simply down to being brick.

The truth is, for all the lack-lustre performances from under-achieving players and deer-in-headlights motions Poch has made a few times, if this fudging side had maintained it's concentration in the two games above, we'd be joint third with the filth despite not being at our best. We'd also have two extra CL points. we can go on about diamonds and pegs and 4-2-3-1s all we want, the bottom line is that focus, concentration and individuals are costing us right now. The manager should be in a good place to fix that, given that we would all likely agree he considers spirit and mentality his forte; let's see if he can do it.
 
thfcsteff said:
...focus, concentration and individuals are costing us right now. The manager should be in a good place to fix that
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Amen. This weekend, within 20 minutes, if the players start as motivated, focused and concentrated as they were against Brighton... we will know what is what.
 
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