Harry Kane MBE

[Jurgen the German]

I ask you again; did Sokratis lay two hands on Kane and shove him? Forget anything else, I would simply appreciate your response to that question. As for “staying on their bloody feet and score or set up an easy chance” etc, I find it hard to believe Kane would not rather do either, however, regardless of whether he has checked his run slightly or not, why has Sokratis laid two hands on him and shoved? That action has nothing to do with playing the
ball. One other question; is it against the rules to not run full pelters when one on one?

There was a decision to be made. I think Atkinson bottled it. You don’t. And now we have a “cheat” narrative.

Madness.

Blimey you do have it in for Kane don't you.

Having watched Kane as much as anyone I am struggling to think of a previous occasion when he has been found guilty by common consent of a clear dive in the box.

The problem of course is that a lot of the time opinions on diving are highly subjective. No doubt there's been the odd occasion when he has been accused of diving, but that does not necessarily mean that is what actually happened.

So I'd say the onus is upon you to come up with chapter and verse. When and where did he dive and can you provide a video link to prove it?

Otherwise as far as I am concerned it simply did not happen.

Are you being serious? Because I believe he has dived on occasions (which he has) then I have it in for him?

Evidence has been provided. Use your eyes. Like I said, diving is ingrained in football now, everyone does it. This sanctimonious attitude that Spurs players don’t ever dive is breathtaking. And yet we accuse others of the very same thing.

For me the bigger issue is why players feel the need to manufacture contact and/or go to ground when there is minimal contact when they could just as easily stay on their feet and have a shot or pass to a teammate in a better/similar position?

I sympathise with players to a degree as refs often will not give a penalty unless a player goes to ground even if he has been fouled but that doesn’t excuse players dragging their legs against keepers and defenders and going to ground when they have simply been brushed to win a penalty.

 

[Bullet]

Kids, stop squabbling before I spank you.

Kane often initiates contact by nipping in front of a defender and then putting the brakes on, when he feels contact he throws himself to the ground. Sometimes the ref gives it. When rounding a keeper he will trail his legs to ensure they get hit by the onrushing keeper. Sometimes the ref gives it.

Whether you call these diving or clever or initiating contact is neither here nor there.

NB - Sokratis had 2 hands on Kane because he is a bungling oaf. It really can be painted either way as a foul or a dive or anything inbetween.

 

[thfcsteff]

Kids, stop squabbling before I spank you.

Kane often initiates contact by nipping in front of a defender and then putting the brakes on, when he feels contact he throws himself to the ground. Sometimes the ref gives it. When rounding a keeper he will trail his legs to ensure they get hit by the onrushing keeper. Sometimes the ref gives it.

Whether you call these diving or clever or initiating contact is neither here nor there.

NB - Sokratis had 2 hands on Kane because he is a bungling oaf. It really can be painted either way as a foul or a dive or anything inbetween.

Which is EXACTLY what I have been saying.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You see, the mature person in me would not bother...but I thought about it aaaaaaand...I can't.

I did use my eyes. I told you what I saw. You told me what you saw. The referee saw neither. Yet here you are suggesting I am wrong.

I accuse DIVERS of diving, that is players who go to ground without any contact. Whether you wish to admit it or not, there was contact with Kane, not simply the legs/back to front, but two hands on him. You then continue with some absolute about a "sanctimonious attitude" which is a pot screaming at a kettle.

Finally, I personally did not suggest YOU SPECIFICALLY had it in for him. I suggested that a narrative has been unfairly written around a player who engages in "clever" play far far FAR less than many in this league. I would further suggest it is because he is Harry Kane, one of the most consistently great strikers in world football the past 6 seasons.

Sorry Steff I didn’t mean to quote your post when responding to spur of the moment.

 

[thfcsteff]

Sorry Steff I didn’t mean to quote your post when responding to spur of the moment.

And apologies in return mate. Line drawn under and I will delete my post.

 

[Spur of the moment]

If people want to believe he's a diver then they will. Perfectly understandable if you are a fan of any other PL team but if you are Tottenham then I would hope that at the very least you'd examine the evidence carefully, closely and dispassionately before jumping to lazy conclusions.

Because if you re-examine the clips closely in that video you will see that in each incidence (a) Kane was fouled and that (b) the force of the contact was enough to cause him to go to ground.

The key to this last point is Kane's momentum. This is something that seems to get wholly overlooked by those who appear to WANT to believe he is a diver.

We need to remember that if a striker is running at full pelt whilst also taking evasive action to avoid being fouled it may only take a relatively slight contact to completely throw him off balance. Once that happens he will then need to break his fall. To do this he will need to adjust how his body hits the ground on the way down.

For me this explains why it can so often look like a dive without actually being one. Tbf I'd have thought any reasonable observer should be able to acknowledge that. No?

So with that approach in mind let's now examine each of the instances in the video more forensically:

In the first, if you watch closely at 0.20-0.21 you can just about see Kepa's hand coming back up from the ground to deliberately catch Kane's foot at the last moment as the Spurs striker is attempting to leap over him to get to the ball. Slo-mo replays in the studio immediately after the game showed this much more clearly than that crappy copy above. So it was Kepa's foul that, combined with Kane's momentum as he tries to avoid the clash by leaping over him that sends him flying to the ground.

Verdict: regardless of what it looks like, definitely a pen, definitely NOT a dive.

In the second, the Juve defender clearly clatters into Kane, simultaneously shoving him with an outstretched arm from behind as he does so. A nice illustration of the dark arts that Italian defenders have gotten off to perfection.

Verdict: no dive.

In the third, watch at 0.32 as Zabaletta grabs hold of Kane's left arm and yanks him off balance. Clear as daylight.

Verdict: Once again, a clear foul and no dive.

The fourth one is less clear tbf, but again, if you watch closely at 0.41, it looks like the Wolves defender's trailing left leg must have accidentally caught Kane's knee as he attempted to skip round the back of him to get to the ball.

Verdict: less obvious, but for me Kane deserves the benefit of the doubt on that one. No dive

Fifth and final one: hard to believe that anyone would seriously contend it was a dive by Kane. But if they do, then maybe a visit to SpecSavers is in order.

In conclusion if that video is the best that Kane's detractors can come up as proof that H is a diver then what it actually does is prove the exact opposite, i.e.

Kane is not a diver. Period.

 

[Baleforce]

He needs to get better at diving, could have sold that more convincingly.

 

[parklane1]

He needs to get better at diving, could have sold that more convincingly.

Practise makes perfect ( he is working on it)

 

[RunTMC]

What was the refs decision with the Sokratis incident? Was it a goal kick or a free kick to Arsenal?

 

[Jurgen the German]

If people want to believe he's a diver then they will. Perfectly understandable if you are a fan of any other PL team but if you are Tottenham then I would hope that at the very least you'd examine the evidence carefully, closely and dispassionately before jumping to lazy conclusions.

Because if you re-examine the clips closely in that video you will see that in each incidence (a) Kane was fouled and that (b) the force of the contact was enough to cause him to go to ground.

The key to this last point is Kane's momentum. This is something that seems to get wholly overlooked by those who appear to WANT to believe he is a diver.

We need to remember that if a striker is running at full pelt whilst also taking evasive action to avoid being fouled it may only take a relatively slight contact to completely throw him off balance. Once that happens he will then need to break his fall. To do this he will need to adjust how his body hits the ground on the way down.

For me this explains why it can so often look like a dive without actually being one. Tbf I'd have thought any reasonable observer should be able to acknowledge that. No?

So with that approach in mind let's now examine each of the instances in the video more forensically:

In the first, if you watch closely at 0.20-0.21 you can just about see Kepa's hand coming back up from the ground to deliberately catch Kane's foot at the last moment as the Spurs striker is attempting to leap over him to get to the ball. Slo-mo replays in the studio immediately after the game showed this much more clearly than that crappy copy above. So it was Kepa's foul that, combined with Kane's momentum as he tries to avoid the clash by leaping over him that sends him flying to the ground.

Verdict: regardless of what it looks like, definitely a pen, definitely NOT a dive.

In the second, the Juve defender clearly clatters into Kane, simultaneously shoving him with an outstretched arm from behind as he does so. A nice illustration of the dark arts that Italian defenders have gotten off to perfection.

Verdict: no dive.

In the third, watch at 0.32 as Zabaletta grabs hold of Kane's left arm and yanks him off balance. Clear as daylight.

Verdict: Once again, a clear foul and no dive.

The fourth one is less clear tbf, but again, if you watch closely at 0.41, it looks like the Wolves defender's trailing left leg must have accidentally caught Kane's knee as he attempted to skip round the back of him to get to the ball.

Verdict: less obvious, but for me Kane deserves the benefit of the doubt on that one. No dive

Fifth and final one: hard to believe that anyone would seriously contend it was a dive by Kane. But if they do, then maybe a visit to SpecSavers is in order.

In conclusion if that video is the best that Kane's detractors can come up as proof that H is a diver then what it actually does is prove the exact opposite, i.e.

Kane is not a diver. Period.

Ok that settles it

I’m sure you could find videos of Gerrard, Suarez and Vardy diving and Liverpool and Leicester fans respectively would argue they were not dives either.

Like I said before, EVERY TEAM dives including us. And most fans claim their own players don’t dive whilst accusing others of the same thing.

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169596269574217728

Dunno if this is a result of his repeated ankle injuries or our general malaise in EPL since Dembele departed...

 

[monkeybarry]

NB - Sokratis had 2 hands on Kane because he is a bungling oaf. It really can be painted either way as a foul or a dive or anything inbetween.

Holy Diver Batman!

 

[monkeybarry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169596269574217728

Dunno if this is a result of his repeated ankle injuries or our general malaise in EPL since Dembele departed...

View attachment 7189

I think it's to do with tactics and/or him wanting to be a creator.
Less touches in the box..... because he hardly spends any time in the box.
More overall touches and less shots speaks for itself. Even when he is in good positions, he just doesn't shoot and looks for the perfect opening rather than just an opening.
Can you imagine him scoring that goals from the side of the area (against the goons) now?
He seems to have lost his bravery with his shooting.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I think it's to do with tactics and/or him wanting to be a creator.
Less touches in the box..... because he hardly spends any time in the box.
More overall touches and less shots speaks for itself. Even when he is in good positions, he just doesn't shoot and looks for the perfect opening rather than just an opening.
Can you imagine him scoring that goals from the side of the area (against the goons) now?
He seems to have lost his bravery with his shooting.

He scored from the half way line last month and had a great shot against Arsenal from an angle and shape not many other players in the world would have imagined let alone tried.

 

[thfcsteff]

Ok that settles it

I’m sure you could find videos of Gerrard, Suarez and Vardy diving and Liverpool and Leicester fans respectively would argue they were not dives either.

Like I said before, EVERY TEAM dives including us. And most fans claim their own players don’t dive whilst accusing others of the same thing.

Kane and Sokratis...it simply is not a dive! There is contact! Both lower and upper. IF you want get into the whole “initiating contact” argument and whether that is “cheating” or simply playing modern football, then so be it, that is a whole other discussion and opinions will differ. But I personally cannot see how you can keep calling it a “dive”...IMO it is lazy rhetoric!

On another note, and following up my disgust at Sky for pinning Kane like they did on post-match live TV, I see they have been forced to remove a tweet which slyly denigrated him. What the fudge is wrong with them?!

 

[Spur of the moment]

Ok that settles it

I’m sure you could find videos of Gerrard, Suarez and Vardy diving and Liverpool and Leicester fans respectively would argue they were not dives either.


Like I said before, EVERY TEAM dives including us. And most fans claim their own players don’t dive whilst accusing others of the same thing.

Have you even looked at the video clips? Or have you just made your mind up regardless that you are going to stick to your negative take on everything?

Some people seem to want to think the worst of everyone else but themselves. He must be diving because al players do? What a sweeping generalisation. And what a miserable take on humanity. I have called Tottenham players out before on this board when it has been a clear dive.

Hard to avoid the conclusion you just want to sling mud around for the sake of it. So easy, so lazy and so ridiculous.

 

[nayenezgani]

Holy Diver Batman!

 

[fernadez]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169596269574217728

Dunno if this is a result of his repeated ankle injuries or our general malaise in EPL since Dembele departed...

View attachment 7189

I think that first version of Kane is gone. Injuries and older now. It's not like he was ever a natural athlete to begin with. He's a physically big guy, how many of them have played such an intense pressing game for so many years, the modern striker is smaller and more mobile now.

Hopefully we can get the support around him and he can play as a finisher of chances for us. Cause he's still the best.

 

[harr1984]

Have you even looked at the video clips? Or have you just made your mind up regardless that you are going to stick to your negative take on everything?

Some people seem to want to think the worst of everyone else but themselves. He must be diving because al players do? What a sweeping generalisation. And what a miserable take on humanity. I have called Tottenham players out before on this board when it has been a clear dive.

Hard to avoid the conclusion you just want to sling mud around for the sake of it. So easy, so lazy and so ridiculous.

I don’t know why you’re taking it so personally, it really isnt a big deal that Kane dives they all do it and to be honest in this day and age I’d be rather concerned if he didn’t - sadly it’s part of the game these days. But you carry on thinking that almost everyone dives except saint Harry,and the vast majority who do think he dives are just jumping on the bandwagon without ever seeing him dive Whatever works for you....

 

[Jurgen the German]

Have you even looked at the video clips? Or have you just made your mind up regardless that you are going to stick to your negative take on everything?

Some people seem to want to think the worst of everyone else but themselves. He must be diving because al players do? What a sweeping generalisation. And what a miserable take on humanity. I have called Tottenham players out before on this board when it has been a clear dive.

Hard to avoid the conclusion you just want to sling mud around for the sake of it. So easy, so lazy and so ridiculous.

What’s ridiculous is this overreaction. Saying I have it in for him. I try to call things honestly even if one of our players has dived or gone over the top with a tackle. I don’t feel the need to close ranks and always defend our own.

There are people who went to the game who post on here and didn’t think it was a penalty. Do they have it in for him also?

I have seen the videos and I’ve been a season for ticket holder for a number of years so I’ve seen enough to make my own mind up without blindly defending him because he plays for THFC.

Making absolute statements like “Kane isn’t a diver, period” is an opinion which you are fully entitled to but it’s no more true than me claiming he has dived on occasion.