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Harry Kane MBE

harr1984 said:
Nope, Im just talking about your bias argument that you first responded to - Every teams fans are biased in terms of thinking they get the raw deal of things due to seeing more of their own teams situations than others, even if avid followers of football in general. Us being dirty? There are plenty of bad challenges we have got away with this season, that of course are never bought up beyond the match, yet for every Xhaka type challenge that isnt punished it shall be mentioned for weeks on end like the world is against us. I'd say we were pretty naughty and certainly no more angelic than any of the other top teams - It's the poorer teams that you find to be the most dirty.....
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Which, if you were paying attention, you evidence perfectly.

"Oh youre biased so you cant be objective".

Which I think is gonads. And just a rather lazy and weak way to dismiss a point of view.

Also, you should note I have never said we are angelic. Never discounted or denied naughtiness we have done. Never tried to whitewash any of it, in fact.

Simply pointed out the degrees to which these things happen - and there are much worse offenders out there than us.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Which, if you were paying attention, you evidence perfectly.

"Oh youre biased so you cant be objective".

Which I think is gonad*s. And just a rather lazy and weak way to dismiss a point of view.

Also, you should note I have never said we are angelic. Never discounted or denied naughtiness we have done. Never tried to whitewash any of it, in fact.

Simply pointed out the degrees to which these things happen - and there are much worse offenders out there than us.
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Well if you can explain to me how you can be objective whilst being biased then I'll agree. Im assuming you see a hell of a lot more minutes of football watching Spurs than you do anyone else. So you'll be able to evidence a hell of a lot more for any argument for Spurs than you can for any club. Therefore you are biased (and rightly so). And its the same for any club, its just the way it works and why in reality as a football fan you are always biased to a certain degree and not completely objective even if you like to think you are. If you dont agree fine, but for me that's just how it is.....
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
So I should dismiss any opinion you ever have because you arent fully clued up? Come on.

I watch Spurs more than enough to know we arent a dirty team.

I also watch Spurs more than enough to know that many of the teams we play are far dirtier than us.

Its not rocket science, and its not bias either.

Aside from which Ive watched plenty of games outside of Spurs to see teams getting shat on, being dirty, being unlucky etc.

I am at no point saying we are a special case. What I am saying is those "other fans" who are convinced we are a really dirty team are wrong.
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We are just as dirty as any of the other big teams in England IMO. No more but also no less.
 
Finney Is Back said:
We are just as dirty as any of the other big teams in England IMO. No more but also no less.
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Would agree with that. Vertonghen is filthy and he's not averse to going down if it suits, Rose can be tough, Lamela can be nasty, Dier is hard while Dele and Kane go down very easily.

Every team has players like that.
 
harr1984 said:
Well if you can explain to me how you can be objective whilst being biased then I'll agree. Im assuming you see a hell of a lot more minutes of football watching Spurs than you do anyone else. So you'll be able to evidence a hell of a lot more for any argument for Spurs than you can for any club. Therefore you are biased (and rightly so). And its the same for any club, its just the way it works and why in reality as a football fan you are always biased to a certain degree and not completely objective even if you like to think you are. If you dont agree fine, but for me that's just how it is.....
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And there you go again. You assume bias on my part, and discredit my view without even entertaining it.

Look at what you are saying - you know my mind better than I do.

Youll need to forgive me for finding that quite insulting.

I am perfectly capable of being a fan of something without being a blithering idiot who cant see it for what it is.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Which, if you were paying attention, you evidence perfectly.

"Oh youre biased so you cant be objective".

Which I think is gonad*s. And just a rather lazy and weak way to dismiss a point of view.

Also, you should note I have never said we are angelic. Never discounted or denied naughtiness we have done. Never tried to whitewash any of it, in fact.

Simply pointed out the degrees to which these things happen - and there are much worse offenders out there than us.
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in the 6 good teams we are there or there abouts and they will get the same treatment - the other teams are always going to be more physical as they will lack skill.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Absolutely NOT trolling Steff, i think you should know me and my posting better than that!

I was going to leave it, but perhaps it's better i reply now and not when we are in a 'bad moment' as Poch might say which REALLY would make me look like a knee-jerker (even more than you might atm lol).
I recognise my view on this may be contraversial but here goes:

- Poch has worked very hard to get the club to work and move as a TEAM; when one single player at this juncture of the season talks about us "needing to get over the line" that in itself on the surface is fine, but can also by implication be saying "i care, perhaps others don't"...not sure if this is good for morale as i don't believe at this time we are not getting over the line because "some care more than others"; Last to seasons i could accept that maybe 'not getting over the line' was a mental issue given the quality at our disposal, but not now. Not sure it's great/necessary for team morale at the moment

- I would normally be very happy for Poch to call out our meteorology as he is more 'neutral' on it compared to one player doing it amongst the group; however, just coming after a few weeks of saying that half of the honours that are potentially available to us are not important and 'just inflate our ego' does not sit well with me: you can prioritise for sure but you also cannot turn 'meteorology'/'ambition' etc on and off like a light switch like that. Again, it comes off a little bit trying to distance onself from the failures to 'get over the line'. If he hadn't poo-pooed the cups, then i'd be bang on with him. Put it this way, SAF, Pep or any of the most driven managers we've seen over our times watching football would prioritise as they see fit but would NEVER openly downgrade honours like that as they know that going for all/any of these takes full-on mental ambition AT ALL TIMES: holding ones nerve in a cup final/semi-final is the same as holding your nerve in a title race etc.

As i say, i think some of the comments would have been better coming at any time in the last two seasons when i REALLY think there were meteorology questions and not neccerily now (at least not until very near the end of the season) as i honestly think this squad is sqeezing every last fibre from itself. I'm always happy for oyur squad/club to be challenged to push on (like Poch did to the board last year a few times) but i also fear there is a bit of 'not my fault guv' going which could threaten the great but delicate team ethic we have taken effort and time to build up; it is our USP over other clubs after all.

Anyway, happy to revisit this at the end of the season and i'd be more than happy as @DevonSpur suggests that they are in a position to tell ME to STFU lol

Regardless, back to praising Kane the 'mediocre 5 season wonder' :p

COYS
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Appreciate the response mate. I think we passed the last sentence position a while ago now. He knows EXACTLY what is needed. He is very careful with his words. And I believe he DID make sure that the dressing room knows there is no margin or they will be gone. We are on the cusp of true greatness; he needs to be sure everyone is in for the full ride. I would suggest that last night we saw that most of them are.

As for this “cups” thing, sorry, he said that the trophies which are massive are the PL and CL and that the other two will not advance the club. He is absolutely right. I am sure he wants to win them, but given the situation and his “squad squeezing” he had to prioritize. Let me offer a final thought; we will make far more money with top 4 and lst 8 of CL than crashing out of CL and winning a League or FA Cups. Which this summer is vital in terms of budget and cache to get a couple of excellent players in. When the likes of DeLigt have a choice to make, the League Cup won’t sway him but consistent CL/high placement, is massive.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
thfcsteff said:
Let me offer a final thought; we will make far more money with top 4 and lst 8 of CL than crashing out of CL and winning a League or FA Cups
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https://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa-champions-league-prize-money/

2017/18 final, short version - Liverpool should have got €83m for coming runners up. Madrid got €91m for winning.


2017/18 FA Cup winners:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_FA_Cup

In the final £1.8m (900k to losing finalist) - and I think £3.4m over all.


2017/18 League Cup winners:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/25/prize-money-2017-18-league-cup-7340736/

What is the prize money for the League Cup this season? The winners of Sunday’s final will claim £100,000, whilst the runners-up will take away £50,000.
Right up until the semi-finals of the competition there is no prize money on offer at all, then the two losing semi-finalists win £25,000 each.
 
Finney Is Back said:
We are just as dirty as any of the other big teams in England IMO. No more but also no less.
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Having watched us for over 50 years i wish i had a pound for every Spurs fan who protests that all sides are dirty and we are not. I have never known a fan of a rival club who does not think their side is treated unfairly by refs etc and we are no different.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
https://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa-champions-league-prize-money/

2017/18 final, short version - Liverpool should have got €83m for coming runners up. Madrid got €91m for winning.


2017/18 FA Cup winners:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_FA_Cup

In the final £1.8m (900k to losing finalist) - and I think £3.4m over all.


2017/18 League Cup winners:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/25/prize-money-2017-18-league-cup-7340736/

What is the prize money for the League Cup this season? The winners of Sunday’s final will claim £100,000, whilst the runners-up will take away £50,000.
Right up until the semi-finals of the competition there is no prize money on offer at all, then the two losing semi-finalists win £25,000 each.
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So in rounded figures, for winning:

The CL is worth £80m
The FA Cup is worth £2m
The Carabao is worth £0m

This is why we prioritise. We don't have a dodgy Arab/Russian oligarch.
 
Bullet said:
So in rounded figures, for winning:

The CL is worth £80m
The FA Cup is worth £2m
The Carabao is worth £0m

This is why we prioritise. We don't have a dodgy Arab/Russian oligarch.
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I stand to be corrected, hence putting up the sources - but yes, it looks that way.

So the domestic cups really do amount to a jolly day out, and thats it. The CL is a genuine game changer, particlularly for a club like ours.

As much as it might upset the purists, simply hitting the CL group is more valuable than an FA cup win.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Would agree with that. Vertonghen is filthy and he's not averse to going down if it suits, Rose can be tough, Lamela can be nasty, Dier is hard while Dele and Kane go down very easily.

Every team has players like that.
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We used to be a very fair team. I remember when Zokora came in and started diving, it was totally and I mean totally out of place in our team at the time, though was already commonplace in many opponents.

It probably did us no favours mind. And times have certainly changed in any case.
 
Parklaner81 said:
We used to be a very fair team. I remember when Zokora came in and started diving, it was totally and I mean totally out of place in our team at the time, though was already commonplace in many opponents.

It probably did us no favours mind. And times have certainly changed in any case.
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Yeah remember one from Zokora against Portsmouth I think and there was an outcry amongst our fans.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I really hate that bias argument, it does my head in. Its like people cant accept others are actually objective.

Not that I think you are accusing me of that here, just one of those "grinds my gears things..."

I am at no point saying we are angels, and I am very sure there are times we have got nasty.

I do contest the idea that we are "a dirty side" though, particularly in the frame it is often presented.

If I had to wager, I would suggest its a perception thing.

We have gone from being a very soft side, to being a combative one. People still probably think of us as soft-spurs and get a bit of a shock when we dont pull out of tackles etc.

I know Alli can be a brick, I know Vertonghen can leave a bit in etc - but these arent a real feature of their games - let alone the teams (rather an occasional thing).

To be cast as dirty and cheating - when we are regularly on the end of much worse stuff - just doesnt seem fair to me.
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I think the issue here is that you are taking being biased as a pejorative term. You think if I or someone else calls you or other fans biased, we are disparaging your opinion and saying that our opinions are better and more valid.

This could not be further from the truth. I literally listed a good few ways in which I, someone I'd consider generally quite level head and objective, become silly because of bias, especially in match contexts. We are all inherently biased towards our football club. It is silly to suggest we aren't. Even my wife is biased towards Spurs. She couldn't care less about football but knows I care about Tottenham so she does by proxy as well. She is not objective about football. Her father is a Man Utd fan but also has a soft spot for Spurs because he wants me to be happy. My point was do people have insight into that fact? Many do. Some genuinely don't and genuinely believe the refs are out to get us, the media are against us, other teams kick us all the time etc etc.

And you'll get fans of pretty much every single club saying the same. It is genuinely quite funny to read match threads of any club because, as much as fans love to pretend we are all different based on the club we support, it is exactly the fudging same, regardless of level, ability or what's at stake. :D Pretty much every single horror tackle from your players is conspicuously ignored. Every time the others go down, its a dive. Every foul the ref gives them was ridiculous. The ref is even more bent than last week's ref. This team are trying to rough us up. They're wasting time. They're brick. We're brick. (Insert random player that poster has an agenda against) is brick. The commentator could not be happier the other team scored. The pundits aren't giving us enough credit. FA are against us. It is literally every club. Spurs, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Burnley, Leeds, Dortmund, Barcelona, Inter, whatever. The same!

I see it the same as having prejudice. I do not believe for a second that anybody in the world has no prejudice at all, whether conscious or subconscious. It doesn't mean they're walking around in a white hood or shouting new-nazi slogans. But perhaps they see a group of black teens wearing hoodies in the street talking and cross the street. Perhaps they see an Asian in class and assume about their academic ability. Perhaps they see a woman in a hijab on the bus and don't want to sit next to her. Perhaps they 'harmlessly' refer to their local Chinese takeaway as the chinky. Perhaps they don't mind LGBT rights but feel uncomfortable if a gay person speaks to them or kisses in front of them. The possibilities are endless. I acknowledge I have prejudices and I think the important thing is to do exactly that, rather than pretend I'm perfect and don't see colour or gender or sexuality at all in any context.

I would disagree with that last bit tbh. I would say Alli's and Vertonghen's brickhousery is a common feature of their game. Rose's too. When he gets on the pitch, you can be 100% sure that Lamela will be leaving something ridiculously sly in at some point as well. And he's such a genius at doing it too. Does that mean Alli dives and puts in horrific challenges every match? No but he does it regularly enough for it to be a part of his game imo, especially when things aren't going well for us (which thankfully is a lot less than before)!
 
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