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Gareth Bale

It's really an interesting dynamic if true

- So many thought Jose and Levy were just a disaster pairing, yet clearly a lot of respect there, lot of experience (both knew each other very clearly), both quite pragmatic men.
- Jose has a history of wanting/expecting players to run through walls for him/team and side lining those he felt weren't doing it

You now have one player for certain in Ndombele, perhaps Bale and we also know Levy refused to sell Dele in Jan, all players who have/look like coming back into team after Jose criticisms.

Would be a hell of thing if Levy makes Jose a better manager by being a counterweight.
I think you can safely take that 'o' out of 'counterweight' :)

Seriously though, interesting points. One thing I was surprised about in the Amazon documentary was how hands-on Levy was with the players. He's probably one of the game's most experienced (and most hated!) chairmen, with Mourinho the exact equivalent in managerial terms. Could they be turning into some sort of club-running dream team?
 
I think you can safely take that 'o' out of 'counterweight' :)

Seriously though, interesting points. One thing I was surprised about in the Amazon documentary was how hands-on Levy was with the players. He's probably one of the game's most experienced (and most hated!) chairmen, with Mourinho the exact equivalent in managerial terms. Could they be turning into some sort of club-running dream team?
But an intelligent one, not a stupid one?
 
I think you could be right.
I said the other day I had a theory built on what's gone on the last 2/3/4 weeks.

Jose has gone from being bemused/frustrated about Bales behaviour around his fitness/body to saying quite clearly twice that Bale is experienced, he knows best, and knows his body best.

There was a definite change there and that change (in Jose's world) would never come about without a third party being involved, and the only third party at the club he'd ever (be forced to) listen to is Levy.

It sounds as though Bale has been empowered to be in control of his body and fitness. That would be massive in Bales eyes, not just physically but mentally, basically the pressure is off, he calls the shots.

On the flip side, Jose would hate this as he is a control freak BUT he is pragmatic enough to accept something is working. He's never stupid though, and that's why he flags these points in his press conferences as he like to make it clear what's happened as if it goes wrong he's not to blame.

People (Jose) can get quite frustrated if others (in this case all hopefully fighting for the same goals) are not like them, and Bale does come across as quite a delicate flower, bit shy, and would bottle stuff up rather than kick off (I'd say Ndombele is similar). Jose is straight talking, bullet proof, super confident and I'd imagine he'd get exasperated with said players if he thinks they're flaky or weak-minded. And although he will give them time, he'd quickly become exasperated as it would grate on him 'why can't they be like me' and feels it's just unnecessary extra work to get them integrated and pulling in the right direction...it's as though they're stragglers.

Of course they're (Bale, Ndombele) world class players, and although I completely understand that Jose is the way he is (and that's fair enough, we are all different), you've just got to be flexible enough to work it out for the greater good of the team, an who knows, sometimes maybe even he is still learning.
I think you may be into something - Jose has been very public about Bale being in charge of his selection, which is quite a deference. I initially thought he was doing it to shame Bale into toughening up but it has also come across as acknowledging him as a superstar - which Bale seems to have responded to with his performances and attitude on the pitch. It’s a really fine line to balance with all players nowadays, with the size of squads, their huge salaries, agent influences and ego having to be considered whilst demanding as much physical exertion and commitment to the cause from them, even if not selected.
 
It's really an interesting dynamic if true

- So many thought Jose and Levy were just a disaster pairing, yet clearly a lot of respect there, lot of experience (both knew each other very clearly), both quite pragmatic men.
- Jose has a history of wanting/expecting players to run through walls for him/team and side lining those he felt weren't doing it

You now have one player for certain in Ndombele, perhaps Bale and we also know Levy refused to sell Dele in Jan, all players who have/look like coming back into team after Jose criticisms.

Would be a hell of thing if Levy makes Jose a better manager by being a counterweight.
Of course, we all view this from the outside, but, I don't think I'm particularly reaching with any of my takes on the situation and what might of happened/is happening.

I suppose the other lingering thought is whether we should have reached this positive position any sooner. I know there are other factors and I'm not saying Bale should have been ready by November but for, let's say new year, would have still given him 4 months to be ready?...and whether any player/manager impasse has delayed it.

Ironically, the type of person Bale is, if you empower him to be the decision maker about his fitness (body and mind), he is more likely to say 'yeah I think I can give you 30mins' because he now feels he owes you. (Because you've kindly shown you understand him) Any other way feels like pressure to him and will push him into his shell as he'll think your not being nice BUT never say anything to you. Further irony is he is less likely to get injuries (strains) with a free-er open mindset. Happier and less stress.

Another example is Redknapp with Ledley, he knew that Ledley just wanted to stretch a bit, bit of pool work in the week, do a bit on the training pitch Friday and tell Harry yea or nay for Saturday....complete trust, and that's because Harry understood that's the only way Ledley could operate and also the best way to get the best out of him. I've never had Harry down as a control freak, so was easily accepting it had to be that way. Conversely if you have that as a characteristic it can be a barrier in leftfield/outlier situations, and in these particular scenarios you're giving away power.
 
I wouldn't sign off on that just yet:D
Ha! I'm just daring to dream a little, before the afterglow of three consecutive wins subsides.

It's been a strange old season of ups and downs. There's as much chance of it ending in glory (League Cup and Europa League double and top 4 finish) as glorious failure (League Cup and EL runners-up, finishing 5th). Say what you will about being a Spurs fan these days, but it's certainly never dull.
 
Ha! I'm just daring to dream a little, before the afterglow of three consecutive wins subsides.

It's been a strange old season of ups and downs. There's as much chance of it ending in glory (League Cup and Europa League double and top 4 finish) as glorious failure (League Cup and EL runners-up, finishing 5th). Say what you will about being a Spurs fan these days, but it's certainly never dull.
It's been peaks and troughs for so many teams. Weird.

Really feels on a knife edge for us at the moment.
 
Of course, we all view this from the outside, but, I don't think I'm particularly reaching with any of my takes on the situation and what might of happened/is happening.

I suppose the other lingering thought is whether we should have reached this positive position any sooner. I know there are other factors and I'm not saying Bale should have been ready by November but for, let's say new year, would have still given him 4 months to be ready?...and whether any player/manager impasse has delayed it.

Ironically, the type of person Bale is, if you empower him to be the decision maker about his fitness (body and mind), he is more likely to say 'yeah I think I can give you 30mins' because he now feels he owes you. (Because you've kindly shown you understand him) Any other way feels like pressure to him and will push him into his shell as he'll think your not being nice BUT never say anything to you. Further irony is he is less likely to get injuries (strains) with a free-er open mindset. Happier and less stress.

Another example is Redknapp with Ledley, he knew that Ledley just wanted to stretch a bit, bit of pool work in the week, do a bit on the training pitch Friday and tell Harry yea or nay for Saturday....complete trust, and that's because Harry understood that's the only way Ledley could operate and also the best way to get the best out of him. I've never had Harry down as a control freak, so was easily accepting it had to be that way. Conversely if you have that as a characteristic it can be a barrier in leftfield/outlier situations, and in these particular scenarios you're giving away power.
Don’t forget he was “ill”... that could have been Covid and that can have a knock on to even a fit player
I mean there was no one arguing that he “did” want to play against city after he declared himself unfit
Why would anyone think any different to what we have seen materialise around Bale?
He wasn’t showing until very recently any running and that was against weak opposition
I don’t think any other manager with his salt would have done things differently seeing him in training every day, which do course fans and press don’t get the benefit of doing.
Reversely what may have happened is we could have gambled on playing him when we had slump in form and damaged him for good
 
For the reasons I've given, not saying they're right.

looks to me like it’s the managers fault...

bale issue is fitness, not an injury

he hasn’t been fit enough to do his game any justice and that revealed affects confidence in his game

it’s no coincidence that he is now match fit his best games are happening

and that’s management of a player
 
didn't Mourinho say recently he should have handled Bale and Dele differently or have i imagined that?
 
didn't Mourinho say recently he should have handled Bale and Dele differently or have i imagined that?
I think you may have imagined it
But will be interesting to read differently
He did recently say we need “good” dele alluding to the conversation he had with dele that’s as widely reported. I took that at the time to him saying when dele is ready we will see good dele (after he is healthy), and the way he played vs Fulham looked to me to be good dele
 
I think you may have imagined it
But will be interesting to read differently
He did recently say we need “good” dele alluding to the conversation he had with dele that’s as widely reported. I took that at the time to him saying when dele is ready we will see good dele (after he is healthy), and the way he played vs Fulham looked to me to be good dele


yeah i can't find anything so must have done, or it was a headline or something
 
looks to me like it’s the managers fault...

bale issue is fitness, not an injury

he hasn’t been fit enough to do his game any justice and that revealed affects confidence in his game

it’s no coincidence that he is now match fit his best games are happening

and that’s management of a player
Who said it was an injury?

Taking 6 months to be fit enough to play 90 mins would be questioned by most people.

I'm not blaming Jose, I'm saying (said) his character may not fit well with certain players, (conversely he might have the perfect character for others) so he is who he is. With Bale, Ndombele that could be a factor (not as sure with Dele).
 
Who said it was an injury?

Taking 6 months to be fit enough to play 90 mins would be questioned by most people.

I'm not blaming Jose, I'm saying (said) his character may not fit well with certain players, (conversely he might have the perfect character for others) so he is who he is. With Bale, Ndombele that could be a factor (not as sure with Dele).
Try 2 years to get fit for bale
And a year for Tanguy
 
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