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Franco Baldini

JerusalemMan said:
No, doesn't really read like that at all.

He can have his full trust but still have the acknowledgement that things aren't working.
No harm in using his ability if he can maintain his professionalism and help us during the window before he goes.
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But there's far too many issues around confidentiality. What's to stop him moving to Arsenal/Liverpool the next day with the list of our transfer targets for the next 2-4 years, and details of all the secret contract loop-holes in our players' contracts.

The second he has no future at the club, he has to go on gardening leave (see Arnesen).
 
Gutter Boy said:
But there's far too many issues around confidentiality. What's to stop him moving to Ar5ena1/Liverpool the next day with the list of our transfer targets for the next 2-4 years, and details of all the secret contract loop-holes in our players' contracts.

The second he has no future at the club, he has to go on gardening leave (see Arnesen).
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You're not serious are you? Why would Arsenal go for him? You make it seem like we are lucky to have him.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I think he's done quite well given the circumstances. We've hardly been a "plain-sailing" type of club since he has been here have we!
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I accept you're not going to get every signing right, but I'd be curious to know why you believe he has done well. Would you say the signings for the most part have been good?
 
Jurgen the German said:
You can certainly make a case that he's not been given enough time, but SO FAR, you would have to say he's done at best, an average job.
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Depends on what his job was. Transfer activities are only part of it and it's he makes the decisions entirely on his own.
 
Jordinho said:
Depends on what his job was. Transfer activities are only part of it and it's he makes the decisions entirely on his own.
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One bit of unseen work of his. Look at the nationalities of the players in our development and academy squads now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._Reserves_and_Academy#Development_Squad_2

That's a major change in the last two years compared to the typical cohort full of red-cheeked middle-class players from Hertfordshire.

Our scouting network has been completely overhauled by him and turned into a modern global operation. But we won't see the fruits of that for 3-5 years.
 
Simple .. people can argue if he's doing a good job or not so good job.

Fact .. no one is arguing that he is/has been doing a great job, based on what he's likely paid, the money he has to work with, the expectations & needs of this club, good isn't good enough.

Sounds like he's probably involved in some deals (likely selling ones) that they will allow him to wrap up before going, Levy (yes, guessing) will likely manage any incoming deals, something he has done many times for us.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I accept you're not going to get every signing right, but I'd be curious to know why you believe he has done well. Would you say the signings for the most part have been good?
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As Jordinho has said, transfer activities are only part of it, and I will caveat what I say with the fact that we don't know if they were "his" signings. What I mean by that is that everything we have heard from the club is that signings are done by committee, and Baldini's role is talent spotting as well as ensuring the transfers happen. He came in at a time when everyone knew Bale was leaving and had a remit to bring in players to fit into AVB's team. So we signed:

1. Paulinho - goal scoring midfielder and a brazilian international no less. Apparently other teams were interested but we will never know that but the transfer was done early (June/July I think?) and I know that's rated highly here. It didn't work out but I don't remember any pundit or anyone here saying that this was a waste of money. Paulinho scored goals, but plainly was not suited to this league. If you are to believe what the press say, Baldini's role was also in getting rid, which he has done with minimal financial loss;

2. Chiriches - We needed a defender to replace Caulker, and he took a punt on a 23 year old Romanian international defender. We bought him for £7m near the end of the window iirc and we sold him for £4m. It didn't work out, but by all accounts he was well rated. Poch said he wanted to give every player a chance, and once determined that Chiriches was not the right player, he was gotton rid of.

3. Soldado - We needed and wanted a proven goal scorer and Soldado fitted the bill and was done early in August. It plainly did not work out, but it seems like he's well liked but they are looking for an upgrade;

4. Lamela - Jury probably still out but obviously he's not lived up to the high expectations. One of the highest rated youngsters at the time and we spent a lot of money near the end of the transfer window. Poch rates him obviously so there must be something there.

5. Chadli - Bought him for £7m in July so early again in the transfer window. I think he's been pretty good value for £7m and should be worth more;

6. Eriksen - Bought him for £11m near the end of the transfer window but with a fair amount of competition for his signing. He's been pretty good value for £11m;

7. Capoue - Bought for £8m in August. French international and seemed to be what AVB wanted. Sold for same amount to Watford as soon as it was decided he was not good enough;

8. Ben Davies - Bought for £10m late July? I can't remember as it was a part of the merry go round with Swansea. Was he bought as back up or to replace Rose, I don't know. At the time fans were wanting to get rid of Rose. Given how much left backs seem to be going for at the moment, I don't think that's bad value;

9. Vorm - Bought for £3.5m late July? Same merry go round set up with Swansea. Obviously bought as a back up, and I can't think of many better back ups;

10. Dier - Bought beginning of August for £4m. Pretty good value given his performances last season;

11. Yedlin - Bought for £2.5m in August but agreed to see out the MLS season. Not really had much time to judge the player but £2.5m is hardly a huge gamble;

12. Fazio - £8m near the end of August. Not our first choice apparently, and I'd say jury is still out. I don't think we've lost a lot of value, but he has done all right and certainly no worse than the performances from Dawson and Kaboul that we were getting;

13. Stambouli - Bought for £5m on deadline day I think. Not first choice, but PSG obviously see something in him and we've sold him for a profit;

14. Dele Alli - Bought for £5m. One of the english exciting talents and you'd think our investment is safe but probably too early to say;

15. Wimmer - Transfer agreed in May for £4m? Seems solid enough but too early to tell;

16. Trippier - Bought in June for £3.5m. Young english right back, and not sure you're going to get much better value for £3.5m; and

17. Alderweireld - Bought in July for £11.5m. Took advantage of the Saints not taking up their option. Proven in the EPL, compatriot of Vertonghen. I'd say money was safe.

In addition to that there are the sales. He's sold Holtby (£5m), Capoue, Kaboul (£3m), Stambouli, Chiriches, Fredericks, Livermore (£8m), Sigurdsson (£10m?), Falque (£4m), Dawson (£6m), Coulibaly (£1.5m), Fryers (£3m), Sandro (£10m), Naughton (£5m), Caulker (£9m), Dempsey (£6m), Huddlestone (£5m), Parker (£3.5m), and not to mention Bale.

Obviously Levy and the rest of the transfer committee will have played varying parts in all of those deals. He would also have had a say in the appointment of Poch who I think has been a success so far as well as Mitchell.

Poch's style and requirement of players are different to AVBs, so I think it has been difficult for him. How he spent the Bale transfer money in that window will always be something that he will be remembered for, but I don't think that it is fair. You cannot get all transfers right, and I'd say Soldado and Lamela are the only real question marks. We've managed to get rid of the other poorer performers for similar amounts to what we bought them for. He's been here for 3 summer transfer windows.

There will be so much behind the scenes that we do not know about, but there is one thing that we know for sure and that is Levy is not patient with failure. So, he must have proven his worth somehow to stay this long.
 
Raziel said:
Simple .. people can argue if he's doing a good job or not so good job.

Fact .. no one is arguing that he is/has been doing a great job, based on what he's likely paid, the money he has to work with, the expectations & needs of this club, good isn't good enough.

Sounds like he's probably involved in some deals (likely selling ones) that they will allow him to wrap up before going, Levy (yes, guessing) will likely manage any incoming deals, something he has done many times for us.
Click to expand...

I personally think it is a little early, but there's no doubt he could have done better. I do think that it is unfair for us to judge him this early, with the upheaval that we have had as a club and without full knowledge as to what his remit was. Managers we get, they're responsible for the performances on the pitch and how the team play. Technical directors or directors of football, less clear imho.
 
Bottom line for me is the signings have been way below par, in the main. Can't be arsed to go through them all now.
So, whether it's his only role or not, the incomings should be given the highest priority, not these other tasks, which presumably included antiques!
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I personally think it is a little early, but there's no doubt he could have done better. I do think that it is unfair for us to judge him this early, with the upheaval that we have had as a club and without full knowledge as to what his remit was. Managers we get, they're responsible for the performances on the pitch and how the team play. Technical directors or directors of football, less clear imho.
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High performance, high pay jobs have nothing to do with fair .. you are expected to produce.

He may be seen in a better light later, but he will never been seen as a top performer based on his time at Spurs, hence he leaves
 
Hashegotthesackyet? said:
Bottom line for me is the signings have been way below par, in the main. Can't be arsed to go through them all now.
So, whether it's his only role or not, the incomings should be given the highest priority, not these other tasks, which presumably included antiques!
Click to expand...

OK, so if it is transfers that we are measuring shouldn't it be the transfer committee taking the responsibility rather than scape goating one member of it?
 
Raziel said:
High performance, high pay jobs have nothing to do with fair .. you are expected to produce.

He may be seen in a better light later, but he will never been seen as a top performer based on his time at Spurs, hence he leaves
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Agreed, but what has he not produced? A star player? Some exciting youth? Or players that would fill the gaping hole that was left by Bale's departure?

Our league position has not deteriorated since he joined.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
As Jordinho has said, transfer activities are only part of it, and I will caveat what I say with the fact that we don't know if they were "his" signings. What I mean by that is that everything we have heard from the club is that signings are done by committee, and Baldini's role is talent spotting as well as ensuring the transfers happen. He came in at a time when everyone knew Bale was leaving and had a remit to bring in players to fit into AVB's team. So we signed:

1. Paulinho - goal scoring midfielder and a brazilian international no less. Apparently other teams were interested but we will never know that but the transfer was done early (June/July I think?) and I know that's rated highly here. It didn't work out but I don't remember any pundit or anyone here saying that this was a waste of money. Paulinho scored goals, but plainly was not suited to this league. If you are to believe what the press say, Baldini's role was also in getting rid, which he has done with minimal financial loss;

2. Chiriches - We needed a defender to replace Caulker, and he took a punt on a 23 year old Romanian international defender. We bought him for £7m near the end of the window iirc and we sold him for £4m. It didn't work out, but by all accounts he was well rated. Poch said he wanted to give every player a chance, and once determined that Chiriches was not the right player, he was gotton rid of.

3. Soldado - We needed and wanted a proven goal scorer and Soldado fitted the bill and was done early in August. It plainly did not work out, but it seems like he's well liked but they are looking for an upgrade;

4. Lamela - Jury probably still out but obviously he's not lived up to the high expectations. One of the highest rated youngsters at the time and we spent a lot of money near the end of the transfer window. Poch rates him obviously so there must be something there.

5. Chadli - Bought him for £7m in July so early again in the transfer window. I think he's been pretty good value for £7m and should be worth more;

6. Eriksen - Bought him for £11m near the end of the transfer window but with a fair amount of competition for his signing. He's been pretty good value for £11m;

7. Capoue - Bought for £8m in August. French international and seemed to be what AVB wanted. Sold for same amount to Watford as soon as it was decided he was not good enough;

8. Ben Davies - Bought for £10m late July? I can't remember as it was a part of the merry go round with Swansea. Was he bought as back up or to replace Rose, I don't know. At the time fans were wanting to get rid of Rose. Given how much left backs seem to be going for at the moment, I don't think that's bad value;

9. Vorm - Bought for £3.5m late July? Same merry go round set up with Swansea. Obviously bought as a back up, and I can't think of many better back ups;

10. Dier - Bought beginning of August for £4m. Pretty good value given his performances last season;

11. Yedlin - Bought for £2.5m in August but agreed to see out the MLS season. Not really had much time to judge the player but £2.5m is hardly a huge gamble;

12. Fazio - £8m near the end of August. Not our first choice apparently, and I'd say jury is still out. I don't think we've lost a lot of value, but he has done all right and certainly no worse than the performances from Dawson and Kaboul that we were getting;

13. Stambouli - Bought for £5m on deadline day I think. Not first choice, but PSG obviously see something in him and we've sold him for a profit;

14. Dele Alli - Bought for £5m. One of the english exciting talents and you'd think our investment is safe but probably too early to say;

15. Wimmer - Transfer agreed in May for £4m? Seems solid enough but too early to tell;

16. Trippier - Bought in June for £3.5m. Young english right back, and not sure you're going to get much better value for £3.5m; and

17. Alderweireld - Bought in July for £11.5m. Took advantage of the Saints not taking up their option. Proven in the EPL, compatriot of Vertonghen. I'd say money was safe.

In addition to that there are the sales. He's sold Holtby (£5m), Capoue, Kaboul (£3m), Stambouli, Chiriches, Fredericks, Livermore (£8m), Sigurdsson (£10m?), Falque (£4m), Dawson (£6m), Coulibaly (£1.5m), Fryers (£3m), Sandro (£10m), Naughton (£5m), Caulker (£9m), Dempsey (£6m), Huddlestone (£5m), Parker (£3.5m), and not to mention Bale.

Obviously Levy and the rest of the transfer committee will have played varying parts in all of those deals. He would also have had a say in the appointment of Poch who I think has been a success so far as well as Mitchell.

Poch's style and requirement of players are different to AVBs, so I think it has been difficult for him. How he spent the Bale transfer money in that window will always be something that he will be remembered for, but I don't think that it is fair. You cannot get all transfers right, and I'd say Soldado and Lamela are the only real question marks. We've managed to get rid of the other poorer performers for similar amounts to what we bought them for. He's been here for 3 summer transfer windows.

There will be so much behind the scenes that we do not know about, but there is one thing that we know for sure and that is Levy is not patient with failure. So, he must have proven his worth somehow to stay this long.
Click to expand...

When it comes to getting rid of players (a lot of whom weren't good enough and he was at the very least partially involved in btw), but overall I would argue that the signings haven't been good enough, with the exception of Chadli and Eriksen so far at least.
 
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