Franco Baldini

[Bullet]

You joined up to post that bile? Without reading the 10 posts above it? Where is the 'ignore' button?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Baldini on his way out?

I certainly hope that is the case - seeing what an epic failure his dealings have been bar the Eriksen capture (which could well have been in motion prior to his arrival).

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...given-man-united-are-set-to-complete-big-deal

100 million wasted on dross - another failed ENIC master-stroke and millions wasted on fees/commissions instead of quality players. Not to mention last summer's shambles and the transfer 'intent' we showcased, well fitting for a Top-4 challenging side - lol.

Perhaps we can win the Balance Sheet trophy this year (again)?

I certainly feel Poch and this coming transfer window in particular would be last chance salon for ENIC. Take away the stadium semi-hoax and we've now plateaued for a soild 4-5 years, possibly regressed in some ways. Some might argue this is our true level - fair enough, but then how can you possibly expect Top 4 football from your managers and keep sacking them as a result? Provide the necessary tools for the job - else it's all pointless and quite frankly laughable. Saints are more than likely to finish above us this season.

Back to Baldini - it hasn't worked and will never work if Dan and the DOF pick the players instead of the ACTUAL manager. This rot has been around since Jol's days (well documented) and needs to be eliminate ocne and for all. If you want Poch to succed - sign the players he wants, not the ones which woul make us the best profit 3 season later.

Mitchell to take over?

Bitter Tim, or still just drunk after yesterday?

 

[billyiddo]

what are you going to do Gutter Boy this summer if Baldini leaves/is sacked?

 

[Raziel]

Baldini on his way out?

I certainly feel Poch and this coming transfer window in particular would be last chance salon for ENIC. Take away the stadium semi-hoax and we've now plateaued for a soild 4-5 years, possibly regressed in some ways. Some might argue this is our true level - fair enough, but then how can you possibly expect Top 4 football from your managers and keep sacking them as a result? Provide the necessary tools for the job - else it's all pointless and quite frankly laughable. Saints are more than likely to finish above us this season.

Back to Baldini - it hasn't worked and will never work if Dan and the DOF pick the players instead of the ACTUAL manager. This rot has been around since Jol's days (well documented) and needs to be eliminate ocne and for all. If you want Poch to succed - sign the players he wants, not the ones which woul make us the best profit 3 season later.

Mitchell to take over?

It is never "last chance" for ENIC/Levy, they own the fudging club .. they don't report to anyone, really don't know where people get there is some idea that ENIC/Levy have one more chance on anything ... there is nothing that makes them vulnerable to mistakes. Therefore we need to be happy they actually seem to want to do the right thing (even if they don't always succeed).

Re the stadium comments, do people really think ENIC has purchased 90+ properties, spent years dealing with local government, built new headquarters, new school, work around the ground, but its somewhat still not real?

DoF/Chairman/Manager will likely (its all speculation) all have a say in player purchases, and its always a risk.

Baldini's biggest failure that can likely be pinned directly on him is Lamela, all the others probably had inputs from the committee, Lamela (from Baldini's history), looks like Baldini's call, and its turned out badly .. Likely Baldini will be measured on who he is proposing for this summer now, and if its off target from what Poch/Mitchell are looking for, then Baldini might be replaced ..

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

You joined up to post that bile? Without reading the 10 posts above it? Where is the 'ignore' button?

Care to outline Baldini's pros so far vs cons?

In addition - how do you feel about the DOF and Levy picking the transfers instead of our managers? This is well documented since the Jol era - do you think this is the right approach to long term success? The only common denominator throughout all these 'wasted' managers remains ENIC. One of their biggest mistakes to date remains booting AVB too early, imv

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

Bitter Tim, or still just drunk after yesterday?

Tim is the worst thing happen to this club since Gooner Graham - and at least he won something.

 

[Jordinho]

Baldini is hired to do a job, scouting players and negotiations when buying or selling. He's obviously present when transfer targets are discussed, but he doesn't sit in his office and decide who we sign, he does the hours and hours of legwork necessary to get players to come here, talking to agents and clubs. If he's sacked, someone else will have to do that job.

In the 90s it was still a relatively level playing field and we squandered millions of pounds on garbage, no DoF there. There are now 5 clubs who are considerably richer than us, the gap in quality can't be closed consistently until we increase our revenues. We might get the odd success (league cups, top 4), but since 2004 we have seen the best period of this club in terms of league position. Wasted managers? No. AVB walked, but everyone else has been given enough time to see if they can make us overachieve, because that's what they would have to do to keep the fans relatively quiet. The one thing we haven't been good at is picking managers that can work with the existing squads, but we're seeing a change in that regard now.

 

[milo]

Care to outline Baldini's pros so far vs cons?

In addition - how do you feel about the DOF and Levy picking the transfers instead of our managers? This is well documented since the Jol era - do you think this is the right approach to long term success? The only common denominator throughout all these 'wasted' managers remains ENIC. One of their biggest mistakes to date remains booting AVB too early, imv

Welcome to the board.

Which club's (home or abroad) structure would you like to see us adopt and how do you think it would be better?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Care to outline Baldini's pros so far vs cons?

In addition - how do you feel about the DOF and Levy picking the transfers instead of our managers? This is well documented since the Jol era - do you think this is the right approach to long term success? The only common denominator throughout all these 'wasted' managers remains ENIC. One of their biggest mistakes to date remains booting AVB too early, imv

Would you rather have a part-time coach then?

One that spends 50% of their time on the training ground and 50% doing human resources?

Or a specialist full-time coach, and a specialist full-time HR person?

For me the skills needed for coaching and for recruitment & selection are so different, its ridiculous to combine them in one role.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We also wouldn't have had Bale or Modric without a DoF, because managers who do transfers only buy for the immediate, not 2-5 years in the future.

 

[milo]

Baldini is hired to do a job, scouting players and negotiations when buying or selling. He's obviously present when transfer targets are discussed, but he doesn't sit in his office and decide who we sign, he does the hours and hours of legwork necessary to get players to come here, talking to agents and clubs. If he's sacked, someone else will have to do that job.

In the 90s it was still a relatively level playing field and we squandered millions of pounds on garbage, no DoF there. There are now 5 clubs who are considerably richer than us, the gap in quality can't be closed consistently until we increase our revenues. We might get the odd success (league cups, top 4), but since 2004 we have seen the best period of this club in terms of league position. Wasted managers? No. AVB walked, but everyone else has been given enough time to see if they can make us overachieve, because that's what they would have to do to keep the fans relatively quiet. The one thing we haven't been good at is picking managers that can work with the existing squads, but we're seeing a change in that regard now.

 

[parklane1]

Baldini is hired to do a job, scouting players and negotiations when buying or selling. He's obviously present when transfer targets are discussed, but he doesn't sit in his office and decide who we sign, he does the hours and hours of legwork necessary to get players to come here, talking to agents and clubs. If he's sacked, someone else will have to do that job.

.

Why let the facts get in the way of a flimflam rant..

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

Baldini is hired to do a job, scouting players and negotiations when buying or selling. He's obviously present when transfer targets are discussed, but he doesn't sit in his office and decide who we sign, he does the hours and hours of legwork necessary to get players to come here, talking to agents and clubs. If he's sacked, someone else will have to do that job.

Is this a factual statement - i.e. you have been informed as such from someone within the Exec circle within the club? I ask this purely out of interest.

Who presents him with these transfer targets? Shouldn't he be responsible for identifying value in the market much like Arnesen (to a degree) and Comolli did? Redknapp's 'success' was essentially built on the latter's exploits.

If he's doing none of the above - why keep him employed? Let Poch and Broomfiled / Mitchell identify the players and Levy to sort out the paperworks - he has 15 years of experience by now.

You clearly disagree - so please outline why has Baldini been a success for us so long and what would you identify as reasons to keep him employed

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

Welcome to the board.

Which club's (home or abroad) structure would you like to see us adopt and how do you think it would be better?

Seeing that the German 51% model would never be tolerated in the PL - I would imagine an approach where the manager selects his transfer targets would be a good starting point. We have done great work with the Academy lately and that should by all means continue, even to the extent of generating bottom half decent players for reasonable profit. Personally, I quite enjoy Swansea and Saints' respective models.

 

[milo]

Seeing that the German 51% model would never be tolerated in the PL - I would imagine an approach where the manager selects his transfer targets would be a good starting point. We have done great work with the Academy lately and that should by all means continue, even to the extent of generating bottom half decent players for reasonable profit. Personally, I quite enjoy Swansea and Saints' respective models.

Southampton have someone other than the manager identifying targets though.

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

Would you rather have a part-time coach then?

One that spends 50% of their time on the training ground and 50% doing human resources?

Or a specialist full-time coach, and a specialist full-time HR person?

For me the skills needed for coaching and for recruitment & selection are so different, its ridiculous to combine them in one role.

We need a balance, imv

This is why AVB was a perfect fit for us, he encompassed many of these aspect perhaps fans weren't quite ready to accept yet - all of this combined with Redknapp's hangover in terms of ridiculously overhyped fan expectations of Champions League football, his PR/dressing room disaster at Chelsea and general animosity towards the tabloid media - always a recipe for disaster. This is where Levy should have backed him, imv and allow him to implement / integrate all these new signings into a squad in great transitions. Essentially we wrote off the 100m Bale money last year and are now largely back to square one. That was poorly managed on many levels and someone needs to be held accountable. Baldini was a key figure in all of this.

Having said that - Poch has displayed some great signs of promise for me this season, albeit some occasional tactical naivety. This is why this coming transfer window would be crucial for me in terms of offering him the tools necessary for job. And if we seemingly can't afford these - why keep blabbing on about Top 4? It's quite frankly embarrassing. Take Kane's miracle away this season and we're bottom half, severely short of any real quality going forwards.

To answer your question - we need a specialist coach (advanced fitness programmes and nutrition, multidimensional tactical understanding, continental experience, etc.) - fit for our new training ground and general ambition) who works closely with our Chief Scout and establishes a solid scouting network. We don't need a DOF who is instructed to buy players we can later sell on for profit to appease the Shareholders and have little relevance to the manager's plans overall. Look at someone like Stambouli for example - one of many recent such mysteries

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

Southampton have someone other than the manager identifying targets though.

I presume you mean Krueger?

 

[Gutter Boy]

We need a balance, imv

This is why AVB was a perfect fit for us, he encompassed many of these aspect perhaps fans weren't quite ready to accept yet - all of this combined with Redknapp's hangover in terms of ridiculously overhyped fan expectations of Champions League football, his PR/dressing room disaster at Chelsea and general animosity towards the tabloid media - always a recipe for disaster. This is where Levy should have backed him, imv and allow him to implement / integrate all these new signings into a squad in great transitions. Essentially we wrote off the 100m Bale money last year and are now largely back to square one. That was poorly managed on many levels and someone needs to be held accountable. Baldini was a key figure in all of this.

Having said that - Poch has displayed some great signs of promise for me this season, albeit some occasional tactical naivety. This is why this coming transfer window would be crucial for me in terms of offering him the tools necessary for job. And if we seemingly can't afford these - why keep blabbing on about Top 4? It's quite frankly embarrassing. Take Kane's miracle away this season and we're bottom half, severely short of any real quality going forwards.

To answer your question - we need a specialist coach (advanced fitness programmes and nutrition, multidimensional tactical understanding, continental experience, etc.) - fit for our new training ground and general ambition) who works closely with our Chief Scout and establishes a solid scouting network. We don't need a DOF who is instructed to buy players we can later sell on for profit to appease the Shareholders and have little relevance to the manager's plans overall. Look at someone like Stambouli for example - one of many recent such mysteries

AVB had never had transfer responsibilities in his career before. He knew he didn't have any expertise in that area, so pleaded with Levy for Baldini, and eventually got him a year late(r).

Poch has never had transfer responsibilities either. Les Reed was his DoF at Soton and Ramon Planes at Espanyol.

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

AVB had never had transfer responsibilities in his career before. He knew he didn't have any expertise in that area, so pleaded with Levy for Baldini, and eventually got him a year late(r).

Poch has never had transfer responsibilities either. Les Reed was his DoF at Soton and Ramon Planes at Espanyol.

Are you suggesting both managers had/have no input in the players being bought or have no interest thereof?

I'm not referring to who does the contractual part / negotiations - more the identifying of targets

 

[Jordinho]

Is this a factual statement - i.e. you have been informed as such from someone within the Exec circle within the club? I ask this purely out of interest.

Who presents him with these transfer targets? Shouldn't he be responsible for identifying value in the market much like Arnesen (to a degree) and Comolli did? Redknapp's 'success' was essentially built on the latter's exploits.

If he's doing none of the above - why keep him employed? Let Poch and Broomfiled / Mitchell identify the players and Levy to sort out the paperworks - he has 15 years of experience by now.

You clearly disagree - so please outline why has Baldini been a success for us so long and what would you identify as reasons to keep him employed

Common sense, as this is how most top level clubs operate. In England there's still quite a few clubs stuck in the dark ages, but most of the PL have started to change and employ a DoF/chief exec to lighten the burden from the chairman.

Baldini is here to allow Levy to do other things than talk to agents on the phone all day. Judging him on who we sign is pointless, unless we know for certain he's signed them against the wishes of others.

The scouting setup, which we have been strengthening this season, is there to keep an eye on as many leagues as possible for rising talent. I know in the past we had one guy who lived in Norway who was responsible for Scandinavia. He probably watched some games on tv, read the papers and occasionally went to games. Basically there to notify our head scout of emerging talent.

Scouts will file reports when they see someone we should take a closer look at. This is where Mitchell comes in. He will put together a file on someone based on dvds. We will send more senior scouts and eventually Broomfield/Baldini or Poch to make final assessments.

'The committee' will consider the reports and the opinions of those present to determine which players we should go for. Which areas the coach wants to strengthen is obviously key for bigger signings, but exceptionally good deals will always be of interest (like Holtby).

Talented youngsters can also be picked up without Poch having explicitly asked for them, but, depending on how much freedom he has been given, Baldini probably has to at least present his case first. Players signed on one person's insistence, without at least getting someone else's opinion, should be and most likely is very rare.

One thing scouts can't see is a player's character and personality. Someone with Baldini's contacts is very useful for that. We have spent tons on agents in recent years. A lot of it will be go-between work that a DoF can do instead.

I don't get why signings have to be scrutinized to the degree they are and someone blamed and sacked. There will always be failures, for whatever reason, but we do quite well. Better than most. If we sack Baldini we'll just find someone else to do his job, but our transfer strategies and way of identifying targets will still be the same.