Franco Baldini

[Gutter Boy]

Haven't watched the vid yet, will do now, but my question is if his role is nothing like Baldini's why is he supposedly so insistent about his role not reporting to Baldini?

I don't see why he wouldn't report to Baldini. At Soton he reported to their DoF - Cortese and then Les Reed.

Technicians/statisticians tend not to be decision makers because they are too focussed and struggle to see the bigger picture. It's better to have people in executive roles using their data to make evidence-based decision.

That type of scouting tells who nothing about the character of the player you're looking at.
We need leaders and determined winners. We have enough tecnically good players with potential all capable of putting in a good performance on a good day.

It wouldn't surprise me if he has developed leadership and determination algorithms too. They exist in Football Manager don't they?

 

[indianspur]

That type of scouting tells who nothing about the character of the player you're looking at.
We need leaders and determined winners. We have enough tecnically good players with potential all capable of putting in a good performance on a good day.

This is absolutely the key. Its easy to gather info, analyse performances, assess skills, but the most important aspect is the mentality of the player, how hungry he is. I think its this side we need to be more throurogh with when buying any player

 

[indianspur]

I don't see why he wouldn't report to Baldini. At Soton he reported to their DoF - Cortese and then Les Reed.

Technicians/statisticians tend not to be decision makers because they are too focussed and struggle to see the bigger picture. It's better to have people in executive roles using their data to make evidence-based decision.




It wouldn't surprise me if he has developed leadership and determination algorithms too. They exist in Football Manager don't they?

Forget about algorithms, I mean wtf. Just talk to the player, better employ a psychoanalyst to weed out the winners from the losers

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

It wouldn't surprise me if he has developed leadership and determination algorithms too. They exist in Football Manager don't they?

This is absolutely the key. Its easy to gather info, analyse performances, assess skills, but the most important aspect is the mentality of the player, how hungry he is. I think its this side we need to be more throurogh with when buying any player

The system isn't going to just spit out a player and we are going to go sign them. It's a method of identifying potential players but allows us to very quickly narrow it down based on what we need for the team at the time.

Once it gives us a list, there will be further evaluation done, including that of their mentallity before they are actually signed.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Forget about algorithms, I mean wtf. Just talk to the player, better employ a psychoanalyst to weed out the winners from the losers

Psychometrics are usually based on algorithms. It's about using big data and establishing rules (based on highly complex mathematics) to predict the future.

It's being used in all walks of life from personalised advertising in the banner on this site, to computers authoring news content, to where to locate healthcare resources.

Mitchells' black box uses big data about successful players (their height, age, pass completion stats, leadership traits, Chinese takeaway choices, name of their dog etc.) to predict who will be the successful players of the future.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Isn't the biggest problem with using stats to sign players that you end up with players like Capoue?

I think I prefer Harry's old method where he actually went to watch the player. I know that's a bit of a radical idea - but let's break the mould and go out on a limb on this one!

 

[Modric THFC]

Isn't the biggest problem with using stats to sign players that you end up with players like Capoue?

I think I prefer Harry's old method where he actually went to watch the player. I know that's a bit of a radical idea - but let's break the mould and go out on a limb on this one!

You need more than that. You need some interaction with them. You need to talk to former coaches and former teammates. There should be serious background checks done on these multi million pound deals.

As for Harry. He thought he could change players and sort them out. He signed Ade on loan after all.

 

[indianspur]

This summer Mitchell's computers came out with the suggestions to buy a Romanian centre half from Steaua, an attacking mid from FC Twente, and a striker in his late 20's who has been scoring for fun in another European league.

Sound a bit familiar?

 

[Jordinho]

Today's Comolli story is how he used stats to convince Harry not to get rid of Bale and show how he could thrive further forward than at LB.

 

[indianspur]

Also I wonder if Mitchell was behind the Gaston Ramirez signing, a big money ( for Southampton) signing, a left footed attacker who did well in Serie A but failed to perform in the PL. Erik Lamela anyone?

 

[jimmyb]

Also I wonder if Mitchell was behind the Gaston Ramirez signing, a big money ( for Southampton) signing, a left footed attacker who did well in Serie A but failed to perform in the PL. Erik Lamela anyone?

Quite possibly.

But he had only been at the club for 6-7 months by then. It's therefore equally possible that his entire operation (staff, software etc) was far from up to full speed by that point.

Besides which, I don't think that even he would claim that any system is infallible. There are still going to be bad buys (and sales). The hope is, however, that a dual approach involving the most modern analytical techniques combined with good, old fashioned scouting and analysis of players will lead to fewer and less extreme such mistakes.

 

[Baleforce]

Quite possibly.

But he had only been at the club for 6-7 months by then. It's therefore equally possible that his entire operation (staff, software etc) was far from up to full speed by that point.

Besides which, I don't think that even he would claim that any system is infallible. There are still going to be bad buys (and sales). The hope is, however, that a dual approach involving the most modern analytical techniques combined with good, old fashioned scouting and analysis of players will lead to fewer and less extreme such mistakes.

Not by you, but Baldini is getting stick for signings we made in the same fortnight that he joined.

I'm all for another smart guy at the club, but its too early to judge Baldini imo, i'm hoping he's not being pushed aside.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Quite possibly.

But he had only been at the club for 6-7 months by then. It's therefore equally possible that his entire operation (staff, software etc) was far from up to full speed by that point.

Besides which, I don't think that even he would claim that any system is infallible. There are still going to be bad buys (and sales). The hope is, however, that a dual approach involving the most modern analytical techniques combined with good, old fashioned scouting and analysis of players will lead to fewer and less extreme such mistakes.

Yeah - even he called it risk management

 

[Jurgen the German]

Today's Comolli story is how he used stats to convince Harry not to get rid of Bale and show how he could thrive further forward than at LB.

Today's Comolli story? Didn't he leave as soon as Redknapp came in?

 

[Jordinho]

Today's Comolli story? Didn't he leave as soon as Redknapp came in?

Okay, it wasn't him that told Redknapp (the short blurb I read wasn't very specific), but I guess the data existed from his time at the club.

From goal.com:

Damien Comolli has claimed that Tottenham told then-manager Harry Redknapp to move Gareth Bale onto the wing at a time when he was pushing to sell the Welshman.

Bale endured a difficult start to his Spurs career as a left-back and it is widely believed that Redknapp was open to the possibility of selling the youngster to Birmingham City for £3 million in January 2010 - a version of events that the QPR boss has always disputed.

A subsequent shift up the left flank in the latter half of the 2009-10 season saw Bale's game develop rapidly and after three seasons of steadily improving performances, Real Madrid broke the world transfer record to bring him to Santiago Bernabeu in an £86m deal.

And Comolli, who worked as Tottenham's director of football until Redknapp's arrival in October 2008, insists Redknapp had to be convinced to move Bale further up the pitch by those at Spurs who had analysed the player's statistics.

“I’ve got to say, I’ve been working with data since 2005 or 2006 in terms of recruitment," he told Irish radio station Newstalk. “We did it at Spurs. We used data in terms of team selection.

“Spurs actually told Harry Redknapp where to play Gareth Bale, because he wanted to get rid of him.

“Data was showing Bale would be an outstanding left winger when they were playing him at left-back [because of his running and skill].”

Comolli also revealed that Spurs elected to sign Rafael van der Vaart over another unnamed player in August 2010 on the strength of the data garnered by the analytical department he set up at the club.

“Spurs have never come out publicly saying it, but I am saying it because I don’t work at the club anymore,” the Frenchman added.

“Spurs had the choice between signing Van der Vaart and another player, and Daniel Levy said we are going for Van der Vaart because data is telling us to.

“I won’t mention the other player who did nothing after that but Van der Vaart had a great two or three years at Spurs.”

 

[Baleforce]

we need to turn that computer back on sharpish

 

[Jurgen the German]

Why didn't Comolli tell Jol to play Bale at left wing if he was so clever?

I think you would have to either naive or stubborn to believe Redknapp didn't want to get rid of Bale at one point, but that doesn't mean he should get at least SOME credit for his improvement. After all, AVB gets credit (from some anyway).

 

[Mumorn]

Why didn't Comolli tell Jol to play Bale at left wing if he was so clever?

I think you would have to either naive or stubborn to believe Redknapp didn't want to get rid of Bale at one point, but that doesn't mean he should get at least SOME credit for his improvement. After all, AVB gets credit (from some anyway).

Didn't Jol always play him on the wing? If not the majority of the time? His debut against Man Utd was him on the left wing, I'm sure he played on the left wing before getting injured and then when Ramos come in decided to play him left back before he got sent off, suspended, arry come in and preferred Ekotto.

Could be wrong however but that's how I remember it.

 

[metalgear]

Remind me the yardstick we used when we sacked comolli...and if it's the same one we are using to judge Baldini ...

 

[Jurgen the German]

Didn't Jol always play him on the wing? If not the majority of the time? His debut against Man Utd was him on the left wing, I'm sure he played on the left wing before getting injured and then when Ramos come in decided to play him left back before he got sent off, suspended, arry come in and preferred Ekotto.

Could be wrong however but that's how I remember it.

I don't remember that tbh.

Ramos definitely played him at left back. Comolli should have mentioned it to Ramos as well then.