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Financial Fair Play

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

So CFC must have found some way to get around it as they have voted for it

They're probably deluded enough to think that a new 60k capacity stadium will sort them out.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

They're probably deluded enough to think that a new 60k capacity stadium will sort them out.

Ahh yes Gourlay saying they have outgrown Shamford Bridge, the ground they have to advertise on all London radio shows and take out adverts in the written media to try and sell tickets for, also the one where they have no waiting list for a ST as well...
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Ha! Pass me the violin.

Pithy. When you register on RedCafe, do let the good people here know your username. On, and we're unbeaten against you this season. Good job signing Van Persie off the Goons, though, we're indebted to you fellows for that one. Hope you win the title, don't want to see City winning it. Glory, Glory Man United, and all that, eh?































What, you're still here? Why? We're uncompetitive, a fifth rate company in an industry dominated by one brand. Surely you owe it to yourself to switch over? It is the logical thing to do. after all, you don't see HP users sticking to their increasingly defunct computers because of brand loyalty; no, they're switching over to Apple and co. with all their might.

Go on, consumer, choose the best brand. Market competitiveness dictates you do so.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Pithy. When you register on RedCafe, do let the good people here know your username. On, and we're unbeaten against you this season. Good job signing Van Persie off the Goons, though, we're indebted to you fellows for that one. Hope you win the title, don't want to see City winning it. Glory, Glory Man United, and all that, eh?































What, you're still here? Why? We're uncompetitive, a fifth rate company in an industry dominated by one brand. Surely you owe it to yourself to switch over? It is the logical thing to do. after all, you don't see HP users sticking to their increasingly defunct computers because of brand loyalty; no, they're switching over to Apple and co. with all their might.

Go on, consumer, choose the best brand. Market competitiveness dictates you do so.

You do make me laugh.

Because by your own logic, if anyone it's YOU who should be giving up Tottenham, a club that has consistently spent squillions over the decades, and going to the local park to watch unpaid footballers doing it for the love of the sport and nothing else on a Sunday morning.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

They're probably deluded enough to think that a new 60k capacity stadium will sort them out.

Now that they've been turned down in bids for the Battersea and Earl's Court sites, where exactly is left for them to build this beast?
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

You do make me laugh.

Because by your own logic, if anyone it's YOU who should be giving up Tottenham, a club that has consistently spent squillions over the decades, and going to the local park to watch unpaid footballers doing it for the love of the sport and nothing else on a Sunday morning.

Some of us do both. My kids' games restore my faith.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

...

Clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52m will only be allowed to increase their wages by £4m per season for the next three years, but the cap does not cover extra money coming in from increases in commercial or matchday income...

So if we qualify for the Champions League and gain the extra revenues, we won't be able to spend the money on player wages?

That seems wrong.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

why the difference?

The 20 teams will not be allowed to make a loss above £105m over the next three seasons, while from 2013-14 they must limit their player wage bills.
"If people break the £105m we will look for the top-end ultimate sanction range - a points deduction," said Premier League boss Richard Scudamore.


vs

The FFP allows only a £38m (45m euros) loss - significantly less than the Premier League's new limit of £105m between 2013 and 2016.

Also Investment in areas such as stadia and academies will be exempt which would be good i guess
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

So if we qualify for the Champions League and gain the extra revenues, we won't be able to spend the money on player wages?

That seems wrong.

good point

23+FFP+Wages+Growth.jpg
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

So if we qualify for the Champions League and gain the extra revenues, we won't be able to spend the money on player wages?

That seems wrong.


There are ways round that, though they aren't great for the club's finances.


Can convert the extra wages to a lump sum payment and give them it as a signing on fee.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

So if we qualify for the Champions League and gain the extra revenues, we won't be able to spend the money on player wages?

That seems wrong.

Wouldn't CL money be in addition to the PL money? We can do what we want with it.

Short-Term Cost Control Measure

Premier League clubs are restricted in terms the amount of increased PL Central Funds that can be used to increase current player wage costs to the tune of:

2013/14: £4m
2014/14: £8m
2015/16: £12m

The Short Term Cost Control measure applies only to clubs with a player wage bill in excess of £52m in 2013/14, £56m in 2014/15 and £60m in 2015/16.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

So if we can get other money in besides Prem money, we can raise our wage bill as much as we like.

If that's true, no surprise Chelsea voted for it. I'm surprised City voted against.

Where's the control in blindingly obvious loophole

Maybe I'm misreading it, but if that's true FFP is a paper tiger indeed.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

City fans evidently not too concerned about the new spending controls, judging by the mood on Bluemoon. They're generally of the opinion that it is the likes of Villa, Everton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine that will be screwed by these rules, not them.

"A campus and series of developments that are akin to printing money hand-over-fist. Soon, everyone will see and it will seriously blow minds, as well as any concerns over FFPR. I'm always bemused by people envisaging our owners are sat on their hands, waiting to be put back in their corner.Nobody puts City in the corner."

"Genuinely, I suspect Khaldoon was objecting to this for the good of the league and for the good of the wellbeing of the smaller clubs. I think we have shown consistently that we are a class act and will try to do "the right thing". I doubt for one moment Khaldoon and our board were remotely bothered by these rules, but other clubs should be very very afraid of the long term consequences."

"In broader terms whilst disappointed from a wider footballing perspective as it is a shame that no-one else can experience what we have, I'd much rather be on the inside of the tent tinkling out than be a supporter of Everton, Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. The greatest tragedy for them is that they probably don't realise that their owners today signed a death warrant on their aspirations as supporters."

Oh. My. fudging. GHod lol
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Oh. My. fudging. GHod lol

Not often i agree with you but yeah fudging hell

I really do hate city and chelsea fans, i would walk away if it ever happened to us. Totally respect the man u ones that went off and started fc united.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

whilst that is lunacy from city fans I do feel that this could end up hitting smaller clubs who miss the targets by a little bit far more than the mega rich clubs who take the tinkle and will be able to finance their way through the loopholes

if it comes down to a football authority or a commercial interest I know who my money is on to be smarter
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/feb/07/premier-league-self-interest-fair-play

New Premier League rules derived from self-interest, not fair play


David Conn


Richard Scudamore, the chief executive of the Premier League, said the regulations his clubs have introduced should not be likened to Uefa's financial fair play, and indeed the most striking first impression was how much more slack the 20 clubs have cut for themselves. Uefa's financial fair play rules restrict clubs in European competitions to making total losses of €45m in 2012‑14, while the Premier League's limit, agreed after nine months of discussion, is £105m over three years. That is still a great deal of money to lose between 2013 and 2016, given the £5.5bn bonanza expected to arrive in TV income alone.

The rules, the £105m loss and the measures restricting players' wages increases, are clearly a compromise. A deal has been done to reach a middle ground between clubs such as Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur who wanted a strict implementation of Uefa's €45m limit, and other clubs, including Emirates Marketing Project, who wanted no restrictions at all.

Scudamore argued that these rules will protect the Premier League clubs financially in advance of this deluge of cash. The £105m is only allowed to be lost if an owner has guaranteed it and paid the money in. Losses not guaranteed by owners will be limited to the much more modest £15m over three years. That, the Premier League said, will prevent "another Portsmouth", the notoriously insolvent club that, in administration again, lurched into another tortured twist, with a new bid made to challenge that of the supporters trust, even as the current top 20 clubs were meeting.

The compromise is also broader, between a vision of football that has clubs living within their means, and one that wants owners buying them and pouring in cash to buy success. The compromise means the English game is still open to that model, but such an owner is limited to £105m over three years, plus investment in youth training and infrastructure. Scudamore specifically acknowledged that the rules will not allow turbo-fuelling like that of Emirates Marketing Project, where Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan has injected around £1bn since 2008 to elevate City from ninth in the Premier League to champions.

There will be sanctions for breaching the rule, and Scudamore said they will push for it to be severe, a points deduction if the £105m is seriously overspent. The aim is to allow owners to put serious money into clubs, but not quite so serious as Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour have unleashed into their football ventures.

The wage limit is a little odd, and illustrates the greatest frustration with the conduct of these reforms. Most clubs' main aim is to ensure they do not blow the forthcoming vast fortune on ever-inflating players' wages. They have agreed to limit wage bill increases to £4m in 2013, then £8m, then £12m, out of the Premier League's TV income. Clubs, though, can increase wages as much as they like from owners' money up to the £105m overall, or from commercial revenue – or ticket income.

The Premier League says clubs will not be seeking ways to evade the rules because they themselves have introduced them. But this rule builds in an incentive to raise ticket prices – at a time when there is an almighty outcry about the high cost of supporting football.

There lies the missed opportunity. These rules do something to restrain overspending, although it is notable they are aimed at a Emirates Marketing Project project, which at least sees money going in, rather than the Glazers' milking of Manchester United for £550m to pay the interest and costs of their own takeover. This has been pushed for by the American owners of United, Arsenal and Liverpool, who bought English clubs as investments, and have no intention of spending money on them.

They, and the other Premier League clubs, three of whom will be relegated at the end of the season, have been allowed to introduce these rules with no reference to the wider game and no involvement of the governing body, the Football Association. They are designed to guard against spending the prospective windfall on player wages, but not tied to any broader discussion, perhaps a commitment to reduce ticket prices, or increase investment in the grass roots. There has been no great consideration of wider issues affecting football, and the clubs have voted from their own self-interest or peculiarities of opinion.

Scudamore said they have been on "a journey" from "a fairly low threshold of financial regulation" to a set of rules requiring solvent, non-criminal owners and a reasonably sustainable way to run clubs. Many believe that journey should go a lot further, not just dampen player wages, and the millions owners can spend on the clubs they have bought.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

funny that the historical "big 4" want the limits to be lower, as David Conn says, its all about self interest
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

You do make me laugh.

Because by your own logic, if anyone it's YOU who should be giving up Tottenham, a club that has consistently spent squillions over the decades, and going to the local park to watch unpaid footballers doing it for the love of the sport and nothing else on a Sunday morning.

I play football on Sunday mornings. Indoor, given the wintery conditions at the moment, but you can't have everything. And the sportsmanship, good humour and better conversations are what keeps football alive for me.

By my own logic, football supporters are irrational, emotional and love their club to the extent of indulging gleefully in tribalism that would be unheard of outside that little bubble. And there is little that is rational in a nine-year old boy, I'm sure you'll agree. So when I say that I fell in love with Tottenham because it was the first football jersey I ever received, when I was nine years old, I am completely secure in my own reasoning. There was nothing rational or logical about choosing Spurs.

Once I became a Spurs fan, I couldn't break that bond, no matter how hard I tried. And believe me, I did try. When Campbell callously moved over the thin red line, I tried. When lasagna-gate rolled around, agonizing my adolescent heart, I tried. When Drogba scored that penalty last year....I came close. But I couldn't stay away forever, and I always came back for more. Be it agony, or glimpses of glory.

That bond is what a free market lacks. Brand loyalty is not going to make you keep buying the newest Apple computer, despite it breaking down on you several times. No one is that understanding, because in the free market, you give a company one chance, maybe two, before you move on to a competitor who can deliver what your current provider lacks. Ruthless competition drives the free market, drives capitalism. The bond a fan has with his football club, that bond survives all kinds of abuse, disappointment and failure. The bond a man or woman has with their computer does not last through those things.

36,000 do not show up at KPMG's offices to cheer on their accountants every week.

Now, I will ask you again; if you truly believe football is capitalistic, if you truly believe there is nothing special about football that necessitates providing an even footing to ALL clubs, not just the rich ones, and if you truly believe that City and Chelsea are right to do what they do because football is driven purely by logic, rationality and profit.....then why are you still here, and not on RedCafe? Or Hala Madrid, I don't judge between the two. But they're both infinitely more succesful and popular than we are, so why aren't you following them?

Before another snarky reply that bears little to no relevance to the question comes my way, I'll answer it for you. You're here because you have a connection with this club that outweighs considerations of success or failure. You're here because you care about this club. You're here despite being able to leave freely and go elsewhere.

You are here because you are a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Or Wrexham. Or Altrincham. Or Aberdeen. Or Falkirk. Or Bristol Rovers. The list goes on, populated by stoic, loyal people who travel miles, brave freezing winds and thundering rain, sweltering heat and icy cold, hostile atmospheres and eternal disappointment, who spend thousands of pounds yearly travelling around the isles supporting the club they love, shouting themselves hoarse for no other reason than to giddy the lads up and get the three points for a side they earnestly believe is 'theirs'.

And that is a bond true capitalism will never, ever have. And that, alone, is a reason to regulate this sport more than any free market economy.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

I play football on Sunday mornings. Indoor, given the wintery conditions at the moment, but you can't have everything. And the sportsmanship, good humour and better conversations are what keeps football alive for me.

By my own logic, football supporters are irrational, emotional and love their club to the extent of indulging gleefully in tribalism that would be unheard of outside that little bubble. And there is little that is rational in a nine-year old boy, I'm sure you'll agree. So when I say that I fell in love with Tottenham because it was the first football jersey I ever received, when I was nine years old, I am completely secure in my own reasoning. There was nothing rational or logical about choosing Spurs.

Once I became a Spurs fan, I couldn't break that bond, no matter how hard I tried. And believe me, I did try. When Campbell callously moved over the thin red line, I tried. When lasagna-gate rolled around, agonizing my adolescent heart, I tried. When Drogba scored that penalty last year....I came close. But I couldn't stay away forever, and I always came back for more. Be it agony, or glimpses of glory.

That bond is what a free market lacks. Brand loyalty is not going to make you keep buying the newest Apple computer, despite it breaking down on you several times. No one is that understanding, because in the free market, you give a company one chance, maybe two, before you move on to a competitor who can deliver what your current provider lacks. Ruthless competition drives the free market, drives capitalism. The bond a fan has with his football club, that bond survives all kinds of abuse, disappointment and failure. The bond a man or woman has with their computer does not last through those things.

36,000 do not show up at KPMG's offices to cheer on their accountants every week.

Now, I will ask you again; if you truly believe football is capitalistic, if you truly believe there is nothing special about football that necessitates providing an even footing to ALL clubs, not just the rich ones, and if you truly believe that City and Chelsea are right to do what they do because football is driven purely by logic, rationality and profit.....then why are you still here, and not on RedCafe? Or Hala Madrid, I don't judge between the two. But they're both infinitely more succesful and popular than we are, so why aren't you following them?

Before another snarky reply that bears little to no relevance to the question comes my way, I'll answer it for you. You're here because you have a connection with this club that outweighs considerations of success or failure. You're here because you care about this club. You're here despite being able to leave freely and go elsewhere.

You are here because you are a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Or Wrexham. Or Altrincham. Or Aberdeen. Or Falkirk. Or Bristol Rovers. The list goes on, populated by stoic, loyal people who travel miles, brave freezing winds and thundering rain, sweltering heat and icy cold, hostile atmospheres and eternal disappointment, who spend thousands of pounds yearly travelling around the isles supporting the club they love, shouting themselves hoarse for no other reason than to giddy the lads up and get the three points for a side they earnestly believe is 'theirs'.

And that is a bond true capitalism will never, ever have. And that, alone, is a reason to regulate this sport more than any free market economy.

You and me both. ;)
 
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