European Super League - Dead on arrival

[AdamB]

ESL will hoard all the best player...until clubs decided not to sell to ESL teams and players not to move to them

However if an ESL team offers a club £40m and the player £300k per week, vs an offer of £20m and £150k per week from a non-ESL team, then I'm not sure that works

 

[glasgowspur]

I would say that neutrals care more about the teams/players than they do the size of the clubs involved - no reason why those Super Sunday line ups wouldn't work if they are the clubs that thrive in the new system and build the best teams - but that is dependant on the SL being a flop and not hoarding all the best players.


Lets not fool ourselves either that beyond Liverpool and United the rest of the 6 are a big enough draw to skew things

Well if they can build that what are they moaning about?

 

[Raziel]

The guaranteed founder participation is the thing that I think is the main difference to the qualification aspect, maybe heightened in our league as the usual top 6 has changed recently - I wonder if they could have used co efficient points and then give an immediate boost to the founders, then just keep rolling them over for participating as a way of keeping it an unofficial closed shop? This is basically being explored in the CL already, to far little outcry. Maybe a viable pathway that if a club does well domestically, ‘qualifies’ for the ESL and then obtains a level of co efficient points by performance to overtake a founder goes give a similar amount of hope to regular CL, they could be invited as a founder and expand the league in this instance?

Mate, here is the simple math/equation to understand

- CL is dead because UEFA has their own motives, so television/sponsor rights will be shared by 96 teams (and you don't always have the best, or they are fragmented between the comps)
- ESL is 20 teams (money shared by almost 5 times less clubs), and the best teams are there, every time. Viewership for group stages alone will likely be off the chart.

UEFA has nothing, what is the offer?

- please come back to our brick competition, where we never listen to you, make you fly to backwater brickholes in winter/covid/etc. give you no broadcasting rights and most years you won't know how to plan your budget until the last day of the season. And yeah, if you win, maybe a 100M based on wich sides you played

or

- ESL, here's 500M for the first year, you can plan for the next 20 years on that revenue, we will help you with infrastructure costs and we are actually working towards a spend control model instead of the fraud that is FFP.

Who the fudge is going to pick option 1?

 

[glasgowspur]

ESL will hoard all the best player...until clubs decided not to sell to ESL teams and players not to move to them

However if an ESL team offers a club £40m and the player £300k per week, vs an offer of £20m and £150k per week from a non-ESL team, then I'm not sure that works

Then the player runs his contract down and leaves for nothing.

 

[billyiddo]

ESL will hoard all the best player...until clubs decided not to sell to ESL teams and players not to move to them

However if an ESL team offers a club £40m and the player £300k per week, vs an offer of £20m and £150k per week from a non-ESL team, then I'm not sure that works

Depends how serious the other 14 clubs are - they can between themselves agree to put rulings in place that can make it difficult for this new system to get going. If SL system clubs can't buy from original league clubs (example) then it's over soon enough as no ones interested in watching Barca v City if they don't have top quality players

 

[Baleforce]

Depends how serious the other 14 clubs are - they can between themselves agree to put rulings in place that can make it difficult for this new system to get going. If SL system clubs can't buy from original league clubs (example) then it's over soon enough as no ones interested in watching Barca v City if they don't have top quality players

the players can't be restrained for long

 

[AdamB]

Depends how serious the other 14 clubs are - they can between themselves agree to put rulings in place that can make it difficult for this new system to get going. If SL system clubs can't buy from original league clubs (example) then it's over soon enough as no ones interested in watching Barca v City if they don't have top quality players

That would be hard to enforce though....particularly as we could buy players from overseas too. And they would also risk breaching cartel rules

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

How is "this is what is to come"?

The motives of this league are very simple
- Owners want protection on their investment
- They want more say in how competitions are run (e.g. bricky scheduling, poor officiating, etc.)
- They see more commercial value in playing against known brands vs. backwater teams

None of the above translates into "moving clubs to different cities" (that happens in US because Cities pay/incent franchises to do so), nor does it translate into 4 quarter games, glorified friendlies or whatever other scare mongering that people without legitimate arguments can come up with.

How is it relevant? it's relevant when the game is completely opened up to 'market forces' anything goes from there. In America, teams management regularly surveyed support in the host city and in other cities and when they found a better market, they moved. This is one of many reasons why i despise US sports and never watch a minute of any of it. It's the logical conclusion to what is starting now... a slippery slope. BTW, just how much support would there be for this if Spurs were excluded?

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Instead of trying to kick the 6 out, the clever thing to do for the other 14 clubs would be to resign for the Premier League and, with the support of clubs for the lower league, restart the league format under different auspices.

Of course, they won't do that because the tiny chance they have of being to the ESL is enough for them to keep quiet. It worked in the same manner with the Champions League, by the way.

It would also require to review the contracts of all their players. Basically, these clubs could be run with less money just by lowering transfer fees and players' wages. It could be done... until some Saudi or Chinese billionaire buys Port Vale or Marine and they're back to square one.

 

[elyid]

Depends how serious the other 14 clubs are - they can between themselves agree to put rulings in place that can make it difficult for this new system to get going. If SL system clubs can't buy from original league clubs (example) then it's over soon enough as no ones interested in watching Barca v City if they don't have top quality players

It might put a spanner in the works temporarily, but long term you can't prevent an employee running down their contract and moving to another company.
Maybe instead of transfer fees, players will buy out their contracts and leave - which kind of makes more sense than a random agent declaring a price anyway.

 

[Baleforce]

It might put a spanner in the works temporarily, but long term you can't prevent an employee running down their contract and moving to another company.
Maybe instead of transfer fees, players will buy out their contracts and leave - which kind of makes more sense than a random agent declaring a price anyway.

In Spain players can do that at any point already can't they?

 

[Raziel]

Instead of trying to kick the 6 out, the clever thing to do for the other 14 clubs would be to resign for the Premier League and, with the support of clubs for the lower league, restart the league format under different auspices.

Of course, they won't do that because the tiny chance they have of being to the ESL is enough for them to keep quiet. It worked in the same manner with the Champions League, by the way.

It would also require to review the contracts of all their players. Basically, these clubs could be run with less money just by lowering transfer fees and players' wages. It could be done... until some Saudi or Chinese billionaire buys Port Vale or Marine and they're back to square one.

They won't do it because nobody risks their house on what might be

For the remaining clubs
- For about 10 of those, not a fudging thing changes, nothing. Top 6 still top 6 albeit with more money, PL gravy train continues
- For about 4 (Everton, Leicester, West Ham mostly) the chance to become an elite club has died, with the upside of domestic cups probably becoming more winnable.

So anyone thinks 14 clubs are going to destroy the greatest financial model in league football anywhere for the hope that one day, one of them might do a Spurs and break into the elite? fudging never.

 

[Baleforce]

side note, how the fudge has Bojo got the time to take such an interest in this

you'd think the pandemic response and the unrest in NI would be a priority

 

[jts1882]

hmmm interesting. I cant remember who posted the link and quote yesterday - maybe there was another rule which they would potentially have been in breach of, and which needed a 70% approval, though this one as you say gives more comfort

The 14 team majority is for most rule changes so I assume people just assumed that applied. I know I did. Expulsion is a bigger issue, so a higher threshold makes sense.

 

[AdamB]

BTW, just how much support would there be for this if Spurs were exclude?

A lot less! My view is that it doesn't sit 100% right with me, but there's enough reasons why its just about pallatable and given that it has a good chance of happening, its better to be on the inside than outside. Lots of us are desperate to see Spurs be successful, whereas on the outside I think we'd end up folding under the debt mountain

I blame UEFA for this getting to this stage. They've grossly mis-managed the game, both in terms of club and international European football

 

[Baleforce]

Instead of trying to kick the 6 out, the clever thing to do for the other 14 clubs would be to resign for the Premier League and, with the support of clubs for the lower league, restart the league format under different auspices.

Of course, they won't do that because the tiny chance they have of being to the ESL is enough for them to keep quiet. It worked in the same manner with the Champions League, by the way.

It would also require to review the contracts of all their players. Basically, these clubs could be run with less money just by lowering transfer fees and players' wages. It could be done... until some Saudi or Chinese billionaire buys Port Vale or Marine and they're back to square one.

could be a great opportunity to fix the pyramid's issues, would seemingly be fan buy in if it could be sold as an antidote to the ESL

 

[Raziel]

How is it relevant? it's relevant when the game is completely opened up to 'market forces' anything goes from there. In America, teams management regularly surveyed support in the host city and in other cities and when they found a better market, they moved. This is one of many reasons why i despise US sports and never watch a minute of any of it. It's the logical conclusion to what is starting now... a slippery slope. BTW, just how much support would there be for this if Spurs were exclude?

Because you are connecting two things that are in no way aligned.

Zero support if Spurs wasn't there, why would I? this will hurt about 4 clubs, 4 clubs by the way that would/have spit/danced on our grave given a moments chance.

Sorry mate, if the choice is take some ambiguous moral high ground and my family starves (while the same fudgers I'm trying to help/save laugh) or take care of my family first, there is always going to be only one answer.

 

[AdamB]

side note, how the fudge has Bojo got the time to take such an interest in this

you'd think the pandemic response and the unrest in NI would be a priority

There's local elections going on. His 2-3 comments on it yesterday mentioned that it shouldnt go ahead 'based on the current proposals' - so some tinkering and he's fine with it

 

[MKSpur]

Mate, here is the simple math/equation to understand

- CL is dead because UEFA has their own motives, so television/sponsor rights will be shared by 96 teams (and you don't always have the best, or they are fragmented between the comps)
- ESL is 20 teams (money shared by almost 5 times less clubs), and the best teams are there, every time. Viewership for group stages alone will likely be off the chart.

UEFA has nothing, what is the offer?

- please come back to our brick competition, where we never listen to you, make you fly to backwater brickholes in winter/covid/etc. give you no broadcasting rights and most years you won't know how to plan your budget until the last day of the season. And yeah, if you win, maybe a 100M based on wich sides you played

or

- ESL, here's 500M for the first year, you can plan for the next 20 years on that revenue, we will help you with infrastructure costs and we are actually working towards a spend control model instead of the fraud that is FFP.

Who the fudge is going to pick option 1?

I understand why it’s good for the people in it and but a qualification based competition could offer most of the benefits whilst not attracting the level of negative PR the guaranteed participation has not unsurprisingly attracted. Its probably us and Goons at most risk as at today, so the co efficient could
be an expansion of the back door way Uefa was trying to do this anyway! I’m playing devils advocate on how I’d feel if we weren’t invited

 

[glasgowspur]

How long before a second tier is announced, 3-5 years.
Crumbs cast from table for likes of Everton, ajax, Porto, Monaco celtic etc.