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Eric Dier

Jurgen the German said:
And sorry which bit am I misunderstanding? Is scoring more and conceding less than the previous season which Wanyama and Dembele helped us achieve not the aim of football?
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I neither know not care precisely what it is you misunderstand about the game.

What I do know is that you're desagreeing with me, which means there's an incredibly high chance of you being wrong.
 
Jurgen the German said:
He did play, just not as often in his preferred position at CM due to Wanyama and Dembele’s form at said position.
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That's more down to the lack of quality defensive backup compared to our midfield at the time. If we'd had a decent defender available then Poch would have started Dier in midfield like he always does.
 
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galeforce said:
I like him, he’d be in my starting eleven when available, but his last full season at CB he was the weak point imo, made a few mistakes that led to goals and was regularly targeted by the opposition.
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We still ended that season with the best defence in the league
 
Jurgen the German said:
I’ll reiterate what I said previously, maybe if you attended games you would see what he offers rather than just going be what you see on tv.
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And maybe if you watched games on TV more you could rewatch aspects of the game and challenge your own confirmation bias.

Jurgen the German said:
That’s why scouts and managers attend games in person so they can get a close up look at a player before signing him or so they can gain an understanding of how a team plays.
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What proportion of scouting in the modern game do you think happens live?

I'll give you a clue, it's a very very small number

Jurgen the German said:
There’s nothing in Dier’s play that backs up your inflated opinion of him as this Beckenbauer esque, ball playing CM that you and Bedford believe he is.
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I've never claimed he is. What I've claimed is that he can control the flow of our game through his understanding an vision - something that only Winks is able to do out of the rest of our midfielders.

Jurgen the German said:
We wouldn’t be bringing through the likes of an 18 year old Skipp and Winks from the academy to play in Dier’s position if the likes of Dier and Sissoko were top drawer.
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If there were any logic in that whatsoever then our academy would be entirely bereft of players in Kane's and Eriksen's positions.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What would be the point of an academy if you don’t bring players through?

And i never said he was an amazing ball playing midfielder. Just that he is much better than most fans believe IMO and gets stuck for errors that actually don’t cost us.
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Well to bring players through of course but you wouldn’t normally throw an 18 year old into a title challenging side and give him as many minutes as we have in such a vital position on the pitch if eveverything was hunky dory at CM.

An error is an error whether it costs us or not. There are plenty of occasions where Lloris or Trippier for example may make a mistake that isn’t directly punished but it’s still an error that puts us under unnecessary pressure.
 
scaramanga said:
I neither know not care precisely what it is you misunderstand about the game.

What I do know is that you're desagreeing with me, which means there's an incredibly high chance of you being wrong.
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I’ll take my view rather than someone who doesn’t attend many games live. There’s only so much you can glean from watching on tv.
 
It may not lead to a goal instantly but every mistake carries a mental cost, a degradation in the confidence of others, a data point for future opposition to analyse and scheme against, nothing happens without consequence in professional sport.
 
scaramanga said:
And maybe if you watched games on TV more you could rewatch aspects of the game and challenge your own confirmation bias.


What proportion of scouting in the modern game do you think happens live?

I'll give you a clue, it's a very very small number


I've never claimed he is. What I've claimed is that he can control the flow of our game through his understanding an vision - something that only Winks is able to do out of the rest of our midfielders.


If there were any logic in that whatsoever then our academy would be entirely bereft of players in Kane's and Eriksen's positions.
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I do both. As in I watch games live in person and on tv.

Why do you think rival managers go to watch games live when they could simply watch on tv? You often see managers attend games of teams who they are due to play against the following week for example. That’s also why international managers like Southgate go to watch players live.

Look, I like Dier. I love his passion and he seems to love playing for our club. But we have players in his position who are both better defensively and offensively and I think Poch will/should make the CM and RB positons the highest priorities to upgrade on in the summer. It’s the only two positions in the team we don’t have a world class player for.
 
scaramanga said:
I've never claimed he is. What I've claimed is that he can control the flow of our game through his understanding an vision - something that only Winks is able to do out of the rest of our midfielders.
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Again you say this but can you name the games he does this ? He does a few good forward passes and he is controlling games? Carrick controlled games he dictated our entire team as did Modric. As did Hoddle. Dier does not.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Well to bring players through of course but you wouldn’t normally throw an 18 year old into a title challenging side and give him as many minutes as we have in such a vital position on the pitch if eveverything was hunky dory at CM.

An error is an error whether it costs us or not. There are plenty of occasions where Lloris or Trippier for example may make a mistake that isn’t directly punished but it’s still an error that puts us under unnecessary pressure.
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He has hardly played a minute in the league hasn’t he??? IIRC he has started one game in the league and came on 3/4 And he has come in when he literally have had no one else available

Not arguing an error is an error
Out shooting vs United was all errors as they never went it... all players make mistakes, just some are held against certain players more than others (just look at the sissoko comments historically)
 
Robspur12 said:
Yeah but that's not down to Dier surely? There are 4 other defenders and defensive midfielders which contribute to that. Lovren has been part of a defence that this season has conceded the fewest goals. But we know he is not a particularly good defender.
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Lovren to date has not played 36 premier league games in a season in the team that finished with the best defence

In fact in this league there can’t be many that have played that many games in a team that had the best defence
 
Jurgen the German said:
I do both. As in I watch games live in person and on tv.

Why do you think rival managers go to watch games live when they could simply watch on tv? You often see managers attend games of teams who they are due to play against the following week for example. That’s also why international managers like Southgate go to watch players live.

Look, I like Dier. I love his passion and he seems to love playing for our club. But we have players in his position who are both better defensively and offensively and I think Poch will/should make the CM and RB positons the highest priorities to upgrade on in the summer. It’s the only two positions in the team we don’t have a world class player for.
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I think most likely they go because it’s a jolly, they may well socialise with others but nobody will learn more from the stands than they will from the numbers, the analytics are where the real info is.

Of course a team/country might be making a pigs ear of analysis.
 
galeforce said:
It may not lead to a goal instantly but every mistake carries a mental cost, a degradation in the confidence of others, a data point for future opposition to analyse and scheme against, nothing happens without consequence in professional sport.
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True

Its why we lost to Man Utd. Our attackers made loads of errors

It’s also why we won vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine

Joys of players being human
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He has hardly played a minute in the league hasn’t he??? IIRC he has started one game in the league and came on 3/4 And he has come in when he literally have had no one else available

Not arguing an error is an error
Out shooting vs United was all errors as they never went it... all players make mistakes, just some are held against certain players more than others (just look at the sissoko comments historically)
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I think that’s because certain players like Kane and Eriksen have more credit in the bank. So people go easier on them when they make a mistake or miss a chance. You have players like Trippier and Sissoko at the other end of the scale who people are harsher on, because they haven’t contributed as much to the team in a positive sense. That’s just the way it works. Dier falls somewhere in the middle. He’s neither as crap as Trippier nor is he anywhere near as good as Kane.
 
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