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ENIC

DubaiSpur said:
Sorry, here's the bits you asked for.

"In view of supporter sentiment regarding the scheme it is not our intention to make use of the current CJRS that runs until the end of May. We shall consult with stakeholders, including the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust [THST], with whom we have been in dialogue over the past week and who share our desire to protect jobs, should circumstances change going forward.”

We regret any concern caused during an anxious time and hope the work our supporters will see us doing in the coming weeks, as our stadium takes on a whole new purpose, will make them proud of their club.”

As for the furlough scheme, clubs with more of a moral compass did all that, plus paid their staff 100% of their wages (not 80%) out of their own pockets. That's the difference between an owner like Tony Bloom and the deadweight we have.
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Again that’s gonads
Clubs who have never paid taxes decided maybe they shouldn’t claim with all their losses
Even arsenal blagged it with salary cuts that they couldn’t confirm where the money would go… they were shown up by Mezut Ozil
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maybe you should go to city and talk to the staff working there
I have …
They don’t have a great reputation
I know a guy who was selling cleaning machines to clubs
We are the only one that brought new machines and the latest spec
City… second hand and basic as the quote was “it doesn’t matter as we have cheap labour here”..
And the guy selling was a city fan
Don’t kind yourself and think any club is any different. Everyone looks great on the way up
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Not my point mate.
  • City are the country's most successful footballing product.
  • A truly rational, businesslike fan would support them, and that's how the market generally works outside of sports.
  • The fact that fans still follow their local clubs, the clubs they grew up with, clubs their parents supported, etc., is at least partly because fans are *irrational*.
  • Yet, people complaining that fans were rightfully angry about furlough seem to want it both ways - that fans should make the deeply irrational choice to support a club with a product as flawed as ours, but then instantly applaud the club for acting ruthlessly because it has no choice, it's a business.
To me it's super weird, and not something I see outside our fanbase. Most fans don't give a damn about the club being run as an amoral business - just some of our lot.

As for how City run themselves internally, I make no comment on that. Only pointing out that for all their flaws, they also did not furlough their staff during COVID, paying their full wages for the duration.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Not my point mate.
  • City are the country's most successful footballing product.
  • A truly rational, businesslike fan would support them, and that's how the market generally works outside of sports.
  • The fact that fans still follow their local clubs, the clubs they grew up with, clubs their parents supported, etc., is at least partly because fans are *irrational*.
  • Yet, people complaining that fans were rightfully angry about furlough seem to want it both ways - that fans should make the deeply irrational choice to support a club with a product as flawed as ours, but then instantly applaud the club for acting ruthlessly because it has no choice, it's a business.
To me it's super weird, and not something I see outside our fanbase. Most fans don't give a damn about the club being run as an amoral business - just some of our lot.

As for how City run themselves internally, I make no comment on that. Only pointing out that for all their flaws, they also did not furlough their staff during COVID, paying their full wages for the duration.
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Because they have never paid taxes
They haven’t contributed to the system to claim back
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Have Brighton ever paid tax under Bloom?
These holier than though clubs haven’t actually paid tax in the main as they are all loas making
We have paid tax
So if you don’t lax taxes, but take from the tax system you are robbing the normal people
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You ask if they have, then immediately assume they haven't - why is that?

Here - simple Google brings up their tax contributions as of 2017/2018, and that's just one year.

"The Football Club is one of the fastest growing private sector businesses in the Greater Brighton City Region. The Club contributed over £54 million to HM Treasury in taxes and National Insurance contributions in 2017/18 including £1 million in local business rates."

Couldn't be arsed to find other years, but no doubt they do a statement like that every year.

They do that, *and* pay their staff. Our generous Dan is no match for Tony Bloom, mate - not as a chairman or a person, on that decision alone. To say nothing of the tax exile who actually owns us, and sits in the Bahamas evading HMRC.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
You ask if they have, then immediately assume they haven't - why is that?

Here - simple Google brings up their tax contributions as of 2017/2018, and that's just one year.

"The Football Club is one of the fastest growing private sector businesses in the Greater Brighton City Region. The Club contributed over £54 million to HM Treasury in taxes and National Insurance contributions in 2017/18 including £1 million in local business rates."

Couldn't be arsed to find other years, but no doubt they do a statement like that every year.

They do that, *and* pay their staff. Our generous Dan is no match for Tony Bloom, mate - not as a chairman or a person.
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That’s basically wage contributions to tax.. hence the NI comment.
Not business tax
That’s the kickers
Clubs lose money to not pay tax
Tottenham have actually made money (yep it’s daft in football) so had to pay tax

this explains a bit about city’s taxes

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...relentless-pursuing-club-tried-dodge-tax.html

not sure how you compare bloom and levy and get a comparison

One is a businessman and the other made his money gambling

nothing wrong with either. As they a legitimate means

A better, more relevant comparison would be levy and the glazers as they made their money … and lost a lot, in property. Would you like them as owners?
 
billyiddo said:
Sorry, where's the apology or backtracking in those quotes?

Regardless i don't form an opinion on whether the club agrees or disagrees with me - i see absoloutely nothing wrong with us using the furlough scheme, people got 80% of their wages covered and didn't have to pay for travel to and from work or associated costs with being at work - people i know who were put on it were very happy with it. People were no worse off and the club saved some money
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In fairness it was only 80% up to a certain level. Which is why I’ve said I supported the club’s intention to use the scheme but they should have looked to top up wages (to the 80%) for those who would have lost out.

Otherwise yes, I’ve yet to meet or hear of anyone furloughed who was unhappy about it.
 
The issue with what you keep on posting @DubaiSpur is you’re making a lot of us look like levy fans boys, because you’re constantly trying to Find things to throw at him and we’re having to balance that with some context

I think we would all like owners with deeper pockets. I think a lot of us would like them to be legit operators but in reality you don’t tend to get mega rich without some dirt

But churning out anything you think is negative to get more people into the ENIC about phalanx hasn’t worked so far and it’s been pretty brick by our own high standards. Unless I’m worn comes in with a lot of cash they ain’t going. For all the protests and black balloons nothing will change and just create more confusion and discourse within the fans

Self made billionaires have thick skin. It’s a trait that helped them exploit people to make money
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s basically wage contributions to tax.. hence the NI comment.
Not business tax
That’s the kickers
Clubs lose money to not pay tax
Tottenham have actually made money (yep it’s daft in football) so had to pay tax
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So did Brighton, mate. They have done so in the past as well. Can't imagine they are paying taxes differently to how we are, since we also made profits and losses and probably either paid business taxes or used deferred tax assets to write off taxes as applicable.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
In fairness it was only 80% up to a certain level. Which is why I’ve said I supported the club’s intention to use the scheme but they should have looked to top up wages (to the 80%) for those who would have lost out.

Otherwise yes, I’ve yet to meet or hear of anyone furloughed who was unhappy about it.
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Up to 2.5k monthly which I'm assuming would have covered most if not all of the stadium staff?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The issue with what you keep on posting @DubaiSpur is you’re making a lot of us look like levy fans boys, because you’re constantly trying to Find things to throw at him and we’re having to balance that with some context

I think we would all like owners with deeper pockets. I think a lot of us would like them to be legit operators but in reality you don’t tend to get mega rich without some dirt

But churning out anything you think is negative to get more people into the ENIC about phalanx hasn’t worked so far and it’s been pretty brick by our own high standards. Unless I’m worn comes in with a lot of cash they ain’t going. For all the protests and black balloons nothing will change and just create more confusion and discourse within the fans

Self made billionaires have thick skin. It’s a trait that helped them exploit people to make money
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>I think all of us would like owners with deeper pockets

Not @Baleforce - he has been commendably consistent in this strange view of us as a business being a moral stand. ;)

>But churning out anything you think is negative to get more people into the ENIC about phalanx hasn’t worked so far and it’s been pretty brick by our own high standards

I'm not trying to get anyone into or out of the ENIC Out phalanx. If I was I wouldn't be here, I'd be on Twitter which has far more people, far more involvement, and it's far, far easier to do than here where we're mostly just discuss things without really changing minds. I've been talking to you, for example, for years now - I do it because I enjoy talking to you, not because I want to change your mind or convert you.

Doesn't stop me from pointing out that the one source of about 95% of this club's ills is ENIC. They are among the worst owners in the league, and I think people underestimate the extent to which they hold us back.

As for defending ENIC with increasingly grasping arguments, your side is doing that mate, not me. I pointed out we backtracked on furlough while Brighton simply refused to use it, and then got a bunch of stuff back about how furlough was morally fine and fans were stupid for being angry about it and Brighton actually didn't pay tax so we're as bad morally as we were, and so on.

All of which is reaching, imo. Especially since, as I pointed out, Brighton did pay tax, and still found the money to not put their staff on furlough. And since, on taxes, we are owned by a literal detestable tax exile who sits in the Bahamas.
 
DubaiSpur said:
>I think all of us would like owners with deeper pockets

Not @Baleforce - he has been commendably consistent in this strange view of us as a business being a moral stand. ;)

>But churning out anything you think is negative to get more people into the ENIC about phalanx hasn’t worked so far and it’s been pretty brick by our own high standards

I'm not trying to get anyone into or out of the ENIC Out phalanx. If I was I wouldn't be here, I'd be on Twitter which has far more people, far more involvement, and it's far, far easier to do than here where we're mostly just discuss things without really changing minds. I've been talking to you, for example, for years now - I do it because I enjoy talking to you, not because I want to change your mind or convert you.

Doesn't stop me from pointing out that the one source of about 95% of this club's ills is ENIC. They are among the worst owners in the league, and I think people underestimate the extent to which they hold us back.

As for defending ENIC with increasingly grasping arguments, your side is doing that mate, not me. I pointed out we backtracked on furlough while Brighton simply refused to use it, and then got a bunch of stuff back about how furlough was morally fine and fans were stupid for being angry about it and Brighton actually didn't pay tax so we're as bad morally as we were, and so on.

All of which is reaching, imo. Especially since, as I pointed out, Brighton did pay tax, and still found the money to not put their staff on furlough. And since, on taxes, we are owned by a literal detestable tax exile who sits in the Bahamas.
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I can’t find any evidence of them paying taxes or making money

Just seen your links
So a profit from last year and one just before Covid. Then they had more cash injected to keep them afloat as they owe their owner £400m
 
DubaiSpur said:
Caring about the people it employs and the wellbeing of the community it's in, which admittedly is not something a lot of businesses do these days.
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Is there a shortage of people wanting to work in football?

I doubt there is and if that's the case, it's wasted money.
 
DubaiSpur said:
This is a very odd sentiment to me, tbh. You seem to want fans to accept things like furloughing staff as just a rational business decision, but then, if football truly were an entirely rationale business proposition, we would have very few fans left to begin with since we do not offer a competitive product.

Emirates Marketing Project offer the country's best and most competitive product, and are also not run/owned by a useless deadweight.

If fans acted as ruthlessly as the club did, we'd have no fans since everyone would simply switch to City. Yet clubs, and the weird fans defending their amoral decisions, seem to want the best of both worlds - fans that irrationally follow losing teams like ours and fans that accept every abhorrent thing they do as just the price of doing business.

Doesn't work that way. Glad the club were forced into a cringing apology over it.
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It's perfectly possible to have an emotional, rather than rational, attachment to and love for the club and at the same time be able to recognise a rational business decision.
Such decisions made by the club may be "amoral" and "abhorrent" in your opinion, and in the opinion of many others, but it's just an opinion nonetheless.

The club also wanted the players to play their part and take a pay cut, but they wouldn't. Was it amoral and abhorrent to ask that as well?
(I think it was dealt with very cackhandedly, but was not an unreasonable position to take).
 
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