Elon Musk buys twitter

[Rorschach]

There is no comparison between pre/post Musk ownership. It is night and day. The moderation may have been flawed before and on occasion didn't meet the standards it should have, but at least there was moderation. To say in its current form has added balance is misleading and bothsideism taken to an extreme. Halfway to the bigoted hate on show now is not a place you want to be either.

 

[spurspinter1]

Im not sure what exactly you are calling me out for? For saying that twitter failed to act when a woman was threatened? I cited a recent example and you went off on some insane rant about privilege because it’s easy to get people on your side when you do that I assume. Not sure where I have denied white privilege is a thing or where I denied that trans people get victimised? It must be grim to live in a world where the rest of us aren’t us progressive or as right about everything as you. Or you could just accept that not everyone sees the world the same as you do and people you disagree with may do good things and but have flaws?

You arguing against nothing that I have stated but as long as you're happy doing it, crack on! I can accept that people see the world differently, but also can only try to educate when people use the same drawn out arguments which enable eventual discrimination to vulnerable people whether intentionally or not. And yep, it is a grim world but we can make it better - Possibly not via online squabbles in a forum but if I offered the chance to discuss this in person then I'm sure that can be taken as a threat too

I'm a firm believer of the concept of "everything is everything" but if you don't see any of the links in my post then that's fine, it's not my duty to baby step you through how things are connected. Try that song about the knee bone is connected to the leg bone and work your way up from there

I would say the ignorance (rather than insanity you kindly mentioned) has been shown in your previous discussions, which have been recorded by the wonder of the internet. Investigate why everything different is labelled as "woke" in your head, why brown (there I said it ) dwarves in the ring of power rankle and see where it takes you.

 

[Jurgen the German]

There is no comparison between pre/post Musk ownership. It is night and day. The moderation may have been flawed before and on occasion didn't meet the standards it should have, but at least there was moderation. To say in its current form has added balance is misleading and bothsideism taken to an extreme. Halfway to the bigoted hate on show now is not a place you want to be either.

I don’t think anyone said it added balance. Just that it was bad before he took over, but it has gotten worse since he took over and I don’t think anyone would disagree. It’s a social experiment which I don’t think has worked in all honesty. I find instagram a far more pleasant experience as a social network site, less arguments, fewer discussions about race and politics which ultimately only ever go way one. But would I let my daughter go on instagram if I had children? Probably not tbh.

 

[spurspinter1]

So if someone could show an example or a handful of examples of a death threat against someone who identifies as trans that wasn't punished that would disprove that agenda?

Have you read or heard much about the kind of treatment trans people have gotten on twitter?

I think privelege is relevant to the conversation. It may be that your priveleges means that you've been less exposed to what happens to people without those priveleges. That may lead one to conclude that there's agenda when there isn't one.

Not sure if he is going to listen ,@Jurgen the German, the self labelled "liberal" seems entrenched in purveying hateful ideals and apparently I'm the one ranting in an insane manner

 

[Rorschach]

I don’t think anyone said it added balance. Just that it was bad before he took over, but it has gotten worse since he took over and I don’t think anyone would disagree. It’s a social experiment which I don’t think has worked in all honesty. I find instagram a far more pleasant experience as a social network site, less arguments, fewer discussions about race and politics which ultimately only ever go way one. But would I let my daughter go on instagram if I had children? Probably not tbh.

The balance idea is one being pushed by Musk under the cover of free speech. That aside, no one would say it was perfect before but it is infinitely worse now. The comparison is rather pointless in my opinion. What is happening is that a public forum that was moderated to a reasonable extent is slowly becoming unusable as right-wing trolls realise they can push the boat out as far as they like without fear of being reprimanded. Of all the big social media platforms out there this was probably the best functioning in certain ways, and the closest one allowing folks to break out of their information silos. It has an amplifying effect for disenfranchised and marginalized groups, and obviously very popular among journalists, pols, academics etc. It had an outsized reach for what is a small user base and all that is about to be lost as owning the libs is more important to him.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The balance idea is one being pushed by Musk under the cover of free speech. That aside, no one would say it was perfect before but it is infinitely worse now. The comparison is rather pointless in my opinion. What is happening is that a public forum that was moderated to a reasonable extent is slowly becoming unusable as right-wing trolls realise they can push the boat out as far as they like without fear of being reprimanded. Of all the big social media platforms out there this was probably the best functioning in certain ways, and the closest one allowing folks to break out of their information silos. It has an amplifying effect for disenfranchised and marginalized groups, and obviously very popular among journalists, pols, academics etc. It had an outsized reach for what is a small user base and all that is about to be lost as owning the libs is more important to him.

Another thing I don’t like about Twitter is companies put far too much stock into what the users think. They’re worried that if 5 people are upset about something on Twitter, then the company has to fire that person but Twitter isn’t real life and they shouldn’t be so concerned with what a tiny minority of people think.

 

[braineclipse]

If there are examples where trans people were subjected to death threats and Twitter did little to act on it then that’s equally wrong and once again, I’m not sure where I ever denied that trans people are victimised? I’m sure it’s even worse for them in real life in certain spaces. I can’t really sympathise as I can’t put myself in their shoes, but I can empathise and my experience, the majority of people think they should have the same rights as straight people do. Or put it another way, LGBT people should have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us in heterosexual relationships. But I do think it is also ok to disagree with a trans person. They should be equal to everyone else, but they’re not automatically right just because they are trans. It’s a tricky subject and some of these changes are very new and it will take time for everyone to get on the same page. But once again, I don’t condone any trans person being attacked or threatened in any way and the fact that anyone in any walk of life would be fearful for their safety is just terrible.

You didn't deny that trans people are victimised. I didn't claim that you denied that.

You did claim that there was an agenda, "evidenced by them doing nothing when someone who doesn’t go along with the trans lobbies views on trans people gets threatened."

I can only assume you've not known about instances of trans people receiving death threats and twitter doing nothing. Leading to your claim about an agenda and "evidence" for that.

The thing about privelege is that this is part of it. Not having that hatred aimed at oneself makes it a lot easier to be oblivious to it. Much easier to say "oh, if that happens that's equally wrong". For many openly trans people those death threats are a part of life they cannot get away from, cannot be ignorant of.

The priveleged can be ignorant of the experiences those without the same priveleges directly experience.

 

[Rorschach]

Another thing I don’t like about Twitter is companies put far too much stock into what the users think. They’re worried that if 5 people are upset about something on Twitter, then the company has to fire that person but Twitter isn’t real life and they shouldn’t be so concerned with what a tiny minority of people think.

I doubt too many decisions like this are made on a small number of Twitter responses.

Twitter isn't real life but it can affect it in a myriad of ways. For example, Space Karen has decided to engage in some mild stochastic terrorism against one of his former employees by implying he is a paedo (not the first time Musk has done this either) and now the guy has had to move out of his house because of death threats. That seems real enough to me.

 

[Grays_1890]

There is no comparison between pre/post Musk ownership. It is night and day. The moderation may have been flawed before and on occasion didn't meet the standards it should have, but at least there was moderation. To say in its current form has added balance is misleading and bothsideism taken to an extreme. Halfway to the bigoted hate on show now is not a place you want to be either.

Twitter has always been a cest pit, always. I'm not trying to level anything up because I think Musk is a strange strange man, I'm mearly applying my own experiences and for my money twitter has always fallen short, way short if where it should have been moderation wise

 

[Grays_1890]

I don’t think anyone said it added balance. Just that it was bad before he took over, but it has gotten worse since he took over and I don’t think anyone would disagree. It’s a social experiment which I don’t think has worked in all honesty. I find instagram a far more pleasant experience as a social network site, less arguments, fewer discussions about race and politics which ultimately only ever go way one. But would I let my daughter go on instagram if I had children? Probably not tbh.

Exactly this, I can only go on my own experiences and being really active for a few years within Spurs circles the lack of moderation or action was always astonishing, renowned nonce like older Spurs fans, for example, trying to solicit underage women and or exposing themselves and no amount of reporting saw them banned and TBH I saw plenty of examples of that kind of behaviour and lack of action highlighted.

Like we have both said, that's not a level up on Musk, just a fact that the platform has always had major major problems

In short, it's possible to believe Musk is a macaron and the previous management to have failed and both be true

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

 

[glasgowspur]

What's to say the death threats weren't by bots to give an easy excuse for the violence + oppression to continue on people who have the audacity to explore and attempt to understand their identity? People are confused by JK Rowling because her fictional world seemed like one of inclusivity, a trigger word for the STRAIGHT WHITE MALES who have it oh so very hard these days, diddums for the hetero honkey ass crackers I day, diddums indeed.

Piers deserves some kind of credit (or eternal damnation but I guess that's slipping in to death threat territory right?), the "normal" folk are ever so worked up about vegan sausage rolls (rather than the more acceptable rotting animal flesh rolls) and the fear of children not living up to grotesque gender stereotypes. It's the "I don't mind gay people, I've got a mate who is a bender, I just don't want it on my tv screen whilst I'm eating dinner" phalanx.

Edit - The swear filter changing "br1gade" in to "phalanx" is pretty nifty, it's made my post look well more eloquent wif gud wurds innit.

It wasn't bots that turned up outside Rowlings and posted her address online.

Is Rowling a transphobe?
I don't know.
What i do know is that she has become a voice against a very unpopular piece of legislation that is being railroaded through the Scottish Parliament.
Legislation that has prompted cabinet resignations in a party that is ruled with a rod of iron.
Legislation that had public consultation ignored because the vast majority of replies didn't go along with government.
Legislation that members of the UN and EU have described as deeply flawed.
The Scottish governments response to all this, your views are not valid. That's a direct quote btw.
The other major voice against this legislation in Scotland is joanna cherry, snp mp who has basically been deplatformed and marginalised.

 

[spurspinter1]

It wasn't bots that turned up outside Rowlings and posted her address online.

Is Rowling a transphobe?
I don't know.
What i do know is that she has become a voice against a very unpopular piece of legislation that is being railroaded through the Scottish Parliament.
Legislation that has prompted cabinet resignations in a party that is ruled with a rod of iron.
Legislation that had public consultation ignored because the vast majority of replies didn't go along with government.
Legislation that members of the UN and EU have described as deeply flawed.
The Scottish governments response to all this, your views are not valid. That's a direct quote btw.
The other major voice against this legislation in Scotland is joanna cherry, snp mp who has basically been deplatformed and marginalised.

With you on the first line absolutely, I haven't indicated they were bots who turned up outside her house, although androids are looking more and more convincing these days Personally I just want them to make Data from Star Trek the next generation as he is one of the best fictional characters ever, but that's another discussion for another thread.

As long as it's not annoying to the general masses to continue the change in topic, it isn't easy on the transgender subject as people can be defined as hateful based on a sincere answer to a loaded question. Same with anything to a certain extent.

Interesting detail on the legislation, can you be more specific on the Scottish government declaring my views aren't valid as I had said a fair few different things on a number of subjects (which does prove too much for "liberals" like Jurgen the german)?

 

[glasgowspur]

With you on the first line absolutely, I haven't indicated they were bots who turned up outside her house, although androids are looking more and more convincing these days Personally I just want them to make Data from Star Trek the next generation as he is one of the best fictional characters ever, but that's another discussion for another thread.

As long as it's not annoying to the general masses to continue the change in topic, it isn't easy on the transgender subject as people can be defined as hateful based on a sincere answer to a loaded question. Same with anything to a certain extent.

Interesting detail on the legislation, can you be more specific on the Scottish government declaring my views aren't valid as I had said a fair few different things on a number of subjects (which does prove too much for "liberals" like Jurgen the german)?

We won't get onto star trek, that's way to long a convo.

Honestly i don't know the whole thing on the legislation, i don't follow it.
But i have few female friends and relatives who are pretty upset about it and very upset about the attitude of the Scottish government.
Their attitude seems to be very much a case of you are wrong, we right, anyone who says different is a nasty bigot and it is not open to discussion. Which to me at least doesn't seem that different from most governments. Although the snp have turned it into an absolute art form.
Personally i can see both sides and i can't understand why it can't be resolved, neither side is asking for anything outrageous. but the government who should be mediating it are actually stoking it.

 

[Rorschach]

We won't get onto star trek, that's way to long a convo.

Just to bring it full circle, one of Musk's beliefs is that we need to evolve into transhumans, sometimes called posthumans. This is about using technology to reengineer our bodies and minds to create a superior race of radically enhanced beings. Or in short, the borg. He's already dabbling in this with animals.
He's off his chump.

 

[Jordinho]

Just to bring it full circle, one of Musk's beliefs is that we need to evolve into transhumans, sometimes called posthumans. This is about using technology to reengineer our bodies and minds to create a superior race of radically enhanced beings. Or in short, the borg. He's already dabbling in this with animals.
He's off his chump.

Musk also believes that we need to terraform Mars to save the human race. Not save the planet we're currently destroying, but move to a different one that is much, MUCH less suited to our needs.

 

[Rorschach]

Musk also believes that we need to terraform Mars to save the human race. Not save the planet we're currently destroying, but move to a different one that is much, MUCH less suited to our needs.

This is just one step along his belief path that humans must endeavor to colonise all of space near us, whatever the cost. The current planet is expendable as part of this vision. He also sees saving rich people as a better way to achieve this goal so they should be prioritised. Convenient.
There's a few obvious issues in these plans.

 

[glasgowspur]

Just to bring it full circle, one of Musk's beliefs is that we need to evolve into transhumans, sometimes called posthumans. This is about using technology to reengineer our bodies and minds to create a superior race of radically enhanced beings. Or in short, the borg. He's already dabbling in this with animals.
He's off his chump.

I've been saying that for years, something deeply disturbing about him.

 

[Grays_1890]

Musk also believes that we need to terraform Mars to save the human race. Not save the planet we're currently destroying, but move to a different one that is much, MUCH less suited to our needs.

I asked why the world wastes billions on space exploration when the money would be much better used on earth, on the Space thread and was lynched....mad how things pan out

 

[glasgowspur]

I asked why the world wastes billions on space exploration when the money would be much better used on earth, on the Space thread and was lynched....mad how things pan out

I would love to go into space and all pictures from the various telescopes, one of my bucket list items is go visit a dark sky area where the milky-way can be seen, but yeah we should really do and spend more on the issues we have down here before we begin to worry about up there.