Gazza would have thrived today - better than 20 years ago (setting aside the booze issue).
4-3-3 which is wide-spread now would have suited him down to the ground and people wouldnt be able to hack him down as much
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Dele Alli
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
Gazza would have thrived today - better than 20 years ago (setting aside the booze issue).
4-3-3 which is wide-spread now would have suited him down to the ground and people wouldnt be able to hack him down as much
add to the list of poachers, luxury players and wingers that stay wide ..
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Good point. At this juncture is Alli now a 'luxury player'?
fernadez
Dean Austin
Any player with a niche position or skill set is a luxury player.
It then becomes on the player to make themselves undroppable due to excelling at their niche.
Inzaghi was reportedly the worst footballer his teammates had ever seen, but started for Juve, Milan and Italy say the height of their powers.
Muller another example, the whole he provides is greater than the sum of the parts.
It then becomes on the player to make themselves undroppable due to excelling at their niche.
Inzaghi was reportedly the worst footballer his teammates had ever seen, but started for Juve, Milan and Italy say the height of their powers.
Muller another example, the whole he provides is greater than the sum of the parts.
I think he is (in a way), my hope was Alli would be a VDV for us, play off the striker, be a goal threat or setup Kane and/or other runners ..
The issue he has now (my opinion)
- We don't have an amazing shield behind him (e.g. if we had prime Kante or even prime Wanyama) that allows him to free (luxury), to be fair, I think that hurt Eriksen as well
- He has a lot of competition, Bale, Kane, Son will outscore him pretty much always, and I think there is a player in Bergwijn
- He has to earn the right, train hard (seems it's been accepted he doesn't), be consistent and contribute every match (if he scores and plays at his best, he will force the selection)
- He also needs to work on his in game intelligence, a great part of his game is he will try outrageous brick, and he should keep that, but often there is a simple option that he doesn't take.
Said it earlier in the thread
- Alli's goal should be to be the "Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes" level (if not exact style) player of this generation
- More likely he will be another that didn't fulfil his potential ..
The question is, would we trade him for a top level CB now? given the balance of the squad, the answer is probably yes.
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
I can see why people question where he fits into the team and whilst he may not be hitting the heights that were almost beyond any comparison for his age, he’s still a very high quality player.
For all the reverence around Son, their Prem goalscoring records are actually quite similar 57 in 162 for Son and 50 in 157 for Dele. The bad trainer thing is a comment by Mourinho who has good form for trying a break them down and rebuild them approach to man management of flair players. There’s no way Poch would have tolerate that from him. I suspect he is jovial and has a tendency to show off and along with being a natural athlete he can look like he could try harder.
Notwithstanding that his drop off in form coincides with the absence or decline of Kane and Eriksen too I’d still say he contributes more than Lamela and Moura. In pre season he looked motivated to prove himself after missing out at the end of the season, post an injury after enjoying an initial resurgence under Mourinho.
I always felt the sky was the limit for Dele and the only thing that would hold him back would be the off field distractions or if he stopped trying to improve as so much of the game game came naturally to him. I’ve also felt his downturn coincided with Southgate misusing him as a midfielder to accommodate Sterling, which in turn marginalises Kane as he’d never get a pass back from him. He was still standing out amongst his peers at that time, got the injury, has been moved about positionally since, had a few niggles and almost all of his team mates on the same wavelength have either regressed, missed games or been sold.
If Mourinho doesn’t rate him or sees him as problem (he did call out our brick direct ball football in the doc and I don’t believe for a minute our Narcissus of a manager hasn’t watched ever minute of it) then I hope we only loan him out for a year, as should Jose not deliver I’d hope his successor gets the opportunity to use him.
I hope this is an extreme motivational tactic, but if Dele does get sold I think he’ll do well in a different set up, he’s not become a rubbish player overnight.
For all the reverence around Son, their Prem goalscoring records are actually quite similar 57 in 162 for Son and 50 in 157 for Dele. The bad trainer thing is a comment by Mourinho who has good form for trying a break them down and rebuild them approach to man management of flair players. There’s no way Poch would have tolerate that from him. I suspect he is jovial and has a tendency to show off and along with being a natural athlete he can look like he could try harder.
Notwithstanding that his drop off in form coincides with the absence or decline of Kane and Eriksen too I’d still say he contributes more than Lamela and Moura. In pre season he looked motivated to prove himself after missing out at the end of the season, post an injury after enjoying an initial resurgence under Mourinho.
I always felt the sky was the limit for Dele and the only thing that would hold him back would be the off field distractions or if he stopped trying to improve as so much of the game game came naturally to him. I’ve also felt his downturn coincided with Southgate misusing him as a midfielder to accommodate Sterling, which in turn marginalises Kane as he’d never get a pass back from him. He was still standing out amongst his peers at that time, got the injury, has been moved about positionally since, had a few niggles and almost all of his team mates on the same wavelength have either regressed, missed games or been sold.
If Mourinho doesn’t rate him or sees him as problem (he did call out our brick direct ball football in the doc and I don’t believe for a minute our Narcissus of a manager hasn’t watched ever minute of it) then I hope we only loan him out for a year, as should Jose not deliver I’d hope his successor gets the opportunity to use him.
I hope this is an extreme motivational tactic, but if Dele does get sold I think he’ll do well in a different set up, he’s not become a rubbish player overnight.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Very good points
Just on the stats - I think this is the trouble with using 'appearances', as they can be quite misleading - Son's had way more sub appearances than Alli. In minutes, Son's played less than Alli in the PL - 10,205 vs 12,234. So Son's goalscoring record is 179 mins per goal, vs Dele's 245 mins per goal.
(Still, agree their goalscoring record still isn't miles apart - just trying to point out that using 'appearances' for stats can be quite flawed).
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
Fair point, I wondered why they were so close! But my point remains, Dele still contributes a decent amount of goals considering he has been played in deeper positions and I’m sure compares favourably with our tough tackling wingers from the other flank! Probably Rashford who also would have come on a sub but is also used centrally and takes pens.
metalgear
Luka Modric
for those goal stats i think you will see that plenty of dele's came a few years back while son's are recent.
extrapolate the stats and who do you keep on the pitch?
a coach like mourinho would have seen plenty of dele-types, i trust he knows what to do with him. favouring a player on the downtrend is one sure way of inciting dressing room unrest.
extrapolate the stats and who do you keep on the pitch?
a coach like mourinho would have seen plenty of dele-types, i trust he knows what to do with him. favouring a player on the downtrend is one sure way of inciting dressing room unrest.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
i am not sure we can call him a " luxury player" but i really wonder how his game is going to fit into the way Jose seems to be going. He has been a top player for us and had his best seasons when he used to play "off the cuff" so to speak. Now we seem to be going down a more structured way of playing where everyone has a specific job to do.
I think we do not have any other player who can play the way Alli does at his best but i also do not think that we have that place in the side that he excels at anymore. I hope i'm wrong though.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
I probably agree with you in the main. I would also slightly disagree in terms of us "going down a more structured route" as Poch's teams were very structured (hence we did so well in a way that was more sustainable and robust than Redknapp's teams). However, if you had instead said "more of a defensively structured route" then i'd agree..
Either way, i agree with your overall sentiment
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Yes you are probably right, i did not structure my sentence in the right structured way.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Yes you are probably right, i did not structure my sentence in the right structured way.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
I didn’t see it as a direct choice, just saying over a long period of time he still averages one in 3- He had one peak season of course but still weighs in regularly compared to a few other players who’s contribution isn’t being questioned. The problem is deciding who the like for like alternative is and what is expected from them, as the midfielders who may offer more in game won’t get the goals and to be honest he’s better than Moura and Lamela but probably wouldn’t hit the defensive contribution that seems to merit their inclusion.
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
This got snatched away and turned into an OMT but this was a little reassuring for me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54264981
Jose Mourinho said he was "tired" of questions about Dele Alli and expects the midfielder to stay at Tottenham beyond this transfer window.
The Spurs boss did suggest the 24-year-old, limited to just 45 minutes' play this season, needed to improve.
Alli has been included in the squad for Thursday's Europa League tie at North Macedonian side Shkendija (19:00 BST).
"He is coming and he has a chance to play. It's important for him to perform," said Mourinho.
The addition of forward Gareth Bale on loan from Real Madrid has added to that competition, while speculation over Alli's future increased after Paris St-Germain showed interest in him.
"When the squad becomes competitive, the players have to have an answer and perform," the Spurs boss said.
Mourinho, though, added that Alli "will have his opportunities", and that it was "no problem" to have him at the club.
He said: "I am not tired of Dele because he is a great kid, but I am tired of questions on Dele.
"I always feel that 99% of the responsibility is the player. I have 1%. Me and my staff and the people that work, everybody has 1%."
Midfielder Harry Winks was confident his team-mate would get his place back in the first team.
"Dele is a top player - you don't get to the level he has got through luck," said the 24-year-old midfielder.
"You get there through hard work and ability. It might be a dip in confidence, I don't know what the situation is but he is a top pro.
"Everyone in the team will back me in saying that he will get back to his best form and he will do."
Meanwhile, Mourinho said he was "not happy" with the situation after Tottenham's Carabao Cup match against Leyton Orient was called off after some O's players tested positive for coronavirus.
The decision was announced two hours before the scheduled 18:00 BST kick-off at the Breyer Group Stadium.
"I process our calendar and my bad feelings to the unfair schedule we have got," he said.
"I was ready to play, but we didn't but I am ready to play on Thursday. I know nothing else."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54264981
Jose Mourinho said he was "tired" of questions about Dele Alli and expects the midfielder to stay at Tottenham beyond this transfer window.
The Spurs boss did suggest the 24-year-old, limited to just 45 minutes' play this season, needed to improve.
Alli has been included in the squad for Thursday's Europa League tie at North Macedonian side Shkendija (19:00 BST).
"He is coming and he has a chance to play. It's important for him to perform," said Mourinho.
The addition of forward Gareth Bale on loan from Real Madrid has added to that competition, while speculation over Alli's future increased after Paris St-Germain showed interest in him.
"When the squad becomes competitive, the players have to have an answer and perform," the Spurs boss said.
Mourinho, though, added that Alli "will have his opportunities", and that it was "no problem" to have him at the club.
He said: "I am not tired of Dele because he is a great kid, but I am tired of questions on Dele.
"I always feel that 99% of the responsibility is the player. I have 1%. Me and my staff and the people that work, everybody has 1%."
Midfielder Harry Winks was confident his team-mate would get his place back in the first team.
"Dele is a top player - you don't get to the level he has got through luck," said the 24-year-old midfielder.
"You get there through hard work and ability. It might be a dip in confidence, I don't know what the situation is but he is a top pro.
"Everyone in the team will back me in saying that he will get back to his best form and he will do."
Meanwhile, Mourinho said he was "not happy" with the situation after Tottenham's Carabao Cup match against Leyton Orient was called off after some O's players tested positive for coronavirus.
The decision was announced two hours before the scheduled 18:00 BST kick-off at the Breyer Group Stadium.
"I process our calendar and my bad feelings to the unfair schedule we have got," he said.
"I was ready to play, but we didn't but I am ready to play on Thursday. I know nothing else."
Legohamster
Ian Walker
I do think part of the issue is Jose wants a squad that can fight for places, when have we had that before?
How often have we had quality players left out? Its not normal for us - whilst bigger clubs it happens most weeks - for us its more of an issue.
How often have we had quality players left out? Its not normal for us - whilst bigger clubs it happens most weeks - for us its more of an issue.
Struggling to think of a club where that's the case other than City - everyone else has a pretty defined starting XI. Will be interesting to see how Chelsea manage this season after their splurge in the market
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...i-jose-mourinnho-tottenham-talent-real-madrid
A good summary here, when it gets going!
A good summary here, when it gets going!