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Dele Alli

mudshark said:
In fact, it's so prevalent nowadays, I often wonder why keepers don't pull out of those type of challenges more often. Nine times out of ten the attacker would probably end up looking as stupid as Alli did Sunday. They've usually pushed the ball further than any ground they are ever going to make up if they stay on their feet as well.
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Keepers make a fair few saves at the feet of players too (Lloris against United last week), if they were hesitating even a split second then they are unlikely to make those saves.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Disagree. Plenty of strikers drag their leg against an opponent to ensure contact is made and it seems to work more often than not. Vardy is another one who is very adept at doing it.
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The attacker is not obliged to jump out of the way of a mistimed challenge. In fact the attacker is stupid to do so, because he will become unbalanced and likely lose control of the ball or shoot wide. The ref never gives penalties for this infringement, which it is.

Yes, football is a physical sport. Having your legs taken out under you has nothing to do with a physical sport.

Furthermore, if the attacker has his foot on the ground when the keeper clatters him, he risks serious injury.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Just gone through his bookings in the league this season;

Huddersfield - booked for diving

Burnley - booked in the first 10 mins for a rash tackle that could have easily been a red

Emirates Marketing Project - booked for a nasty foul on KDB that should have been a red

United - Booked for a wild kick at Sanchez which again could have been a red

Liverpool - booked for diving

That's 5 yellows that easily could have been avoided and should have received at least 1 red this season for that tackle on De Bruyne. Yes I accept midfielders are always going to accumulate bookings over the course of the season, getting booked for mistiming a tackle or pulling someone's shirt, making a tactical foul and taking one for the team etc, that happens. But Alli's yellow cards have all been totally unnecessary. I see people say that's just his nature, to me that's accepting he will occasionally do something stupid and allowing it to keep happening. Maybe Poch has had a word with him or several words and he keeps ignoring him but he's young enough to change. I want him to be pumped up and be a bit nasty every now and then, I just want him to try and avoid the silly, needless bookings.
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Totally agree with this. I stated somewhere earlier that these bookings will add up and cost us in the final games, i'm sure of it. Difference is arguably this time the team can operate without him as his form hasn't been as potent as last season.

I also think i saw Poch looking seriously unhappy after the dive/booking. Cameras caught him shaking his head and looking quite exasperated at Alli. Can't say i blame him either as i'm sure he's been spoken to numerous times about this and Poch has always defended him, saying he's young and will learn. But that line won't wash any more and Poch knows it.

...I think Alli was very lucky that the end of the game and all it's drama has taken the limelight off his antics somewhat.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Just gone through his bookings in the league this season;

Huddersfield - booked for diving

Burnley - booked in the first 10 mins for a rash tackle that could have easily been a red

Emirates Marketing Project - booked for a nasty foul on KDB that should have been a red

United - Booked for a wild kick at Sanchez which again could have been a red

Liverpool - booked for diving

That's 5 yellows that easily could have been avoided and should have received at least 1 red this season for that tackle on De Bruyne. Yes I accept midfielders are always going to accumulate bookings over the course of the season, getting booked for mistiming a tackle or pulling someone's shirt, making a tactical foul and taking one for the team etc, that happens. But Alli's yellow cards have all been totally unnecessary. I see people say that's just his nature, to me that's accepting he will occasionally do something stupid and allowing it to keep happening. Maybe Poch has had a word with him or several words and he keeps ignoring him but he's young enough to change. I want him to be pumped up and be a bit nasty every now and then, I just want him to try and avoid the silly, needless bookings.
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He is nowhere near getting a suspension. He would need another 5 cards in the next 8 league games!

Did Liverpool fans complain about Gerrard's red card record or United fans complain about Scholes?
 
Nifel said:
The attacker is not obliged to jump out of the way of a mistimed challenge. In fact the attacker is stupid to do so, because he will become unbalanced and likely lose control of the ball or shoot wide. The ref never gives penalties for this infringement, which it is.

Yes, football is a physical sport. Having your legs taken out under you has nothing to do with a physical sport.

Furthermore, if the attacker has his foot on the ground when the keeper clatters him, he risks serious injury.
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I agree the striker is not obliged to get out of the way but that doesn't give them the right to drag their leg against an opponent to ensure contact is made. They are essentially manufacturing contact. It's a completely different argument if the keeper comes out, touches the opponent and physically impedes him or knocks him off balance. Contact in itself shouldn't give players the right to throw themselves to the ground.

Sometimes the keeper makes contact with the ball and wins the ball but makes contact with the opponent in the process, to me that isn't a foul. A good example of this was Gomes away against Man United when he clearly got the ball but the ref decided to give United a penalty as he made contact with Tevez. It was a joke decision.


I don't agree re the injury argument, injuries are a part of the game unfortunately. Every player wants to avoid them but cheating to avoid injury isn't right in my opinion.
 
Modric THFC said:
He is nowhere near getting a suspension. He would need another 5 cards in the next 8 league games!

Did Liverpool fans complain about Gerrard's red card record or United fans complain about Scholes?
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I've already said I want him to be aggressive and accept he will pick up yellow cards as all midfielders do. He has picked up yellow cards in consecutive games. Yes he still has 5 before he gets a ban but he is 5 closer to a ban than he should be. He needs to be smart and not accumulate them for diving or for needless fouls when the game is already won like against Liverpool and United. I accept he's one of our best young players but we shouldn't be making excuses him for when he picks up silly yellow cards and simply put it down to "that's how he plays".
 
StephenH said:
The problem is now all referees in the U.K. will not give Dele a penalty as we saw against Man U last week.
Our referees are incapable of judging a situation on its merits they are NOT impartial thus not fit for purpose!
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I don't believe they go out of their way to not give penalties to us because Alli has won at least one penalty for us this season. But I do believe some refs aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt if they are undecided on whether to give penalty. We've all seen how some penalties split opinion, refs are probably no different.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don't believe they go out of their way to not give penalties to us because Alli has won at least one penalty for us this season. But I do believe some refs aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt if they are undecided on whether to give penalty. We've all seen how some penalties split opinion, refs are probably no different.
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Agreed although how he didn’t get one vs United I’ll never know. That was a dirty malicious tackle IMO
 
Jurgen the German said:
I agree the striker is not obliged to get out of the way but that doesn't give them the right to drag their leg against an opponent to ensure contact is made. They are essentially manufacturing contact. It's a completely different argument if the keeper comes out, touches the opponent and physically impedes him or knocks him off balance. Contact in itself shouldn't give players the right to throw themselves to the ground.

Sometimes the keeper makes contact with the ball and wins the ball but makes contact with the opponent in the process, to me that isn't a foul. A good example of this was Gomes away against Man United when he clearly got the ball but the ref decided to give United a penalty as he made contact with Tevez. It was a joke decision.


I don't agree re the injury argument, injuries are a part of the game unfortunately. Every player wants to avoid them but cheating to avoid injury isn't right in my opinion.
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I still disagree that Deulofeu dragged his foot. It looked pretty natural to me.... The keeper committed himself, Deulofeu put it past the keeper and the keeper's momentum took him into the player. As the keeper first touched the player it looked like Deulofeu's feet were in quite a natural position.

Usually if the keeper gets the ball ahead of the attacker and then takes player after ball the ref will not award a penalty. Of course that didn't apply at Old Trafford (especially when Ferguson was manager) where anything close to contact somewhere within the vicinity of the penalty area was always awarded in Man Utd's favour. The key to the decision from the referee is usually whether contact with the player is made before or after the ball has been won. If the latter then generally no pen if the former then generally a penalty is awarded, neither Karius or Courtois made any contact with the ball on Sunday/Monday and therefore both decisions were easy penalties to award (and the right decision was made in both cases).
 
r-u-s-x said:
yep and I guess that's why more keepers don't pull out more often.
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I see many keepers try pull out, but failing because of momentum.
Jurgen the German said:
I agree the striker is not obliged to get out of the way but that doesn't give them the right to drag their leg against an opponent to ensure contact is made. They are essentially manufacturing contact. It's a completely different argument if the keeper comes out, touches the opponent and physically impedes him or knocks him off balance. Contact in itself shouldn't give players the right to throw themselves to the ground.

Sometimes the keeper makes contact with the ball and wins the ball but makes contact with the opponent in the process, to me that isn't a foul. A good example of this was Gomes away against Man United when he clearly got the ball but the ref decided to give United a penalty as he made contact with Tevez. It was a joke decision.


I don't agree re the injury argument, injuries are a part of the game unfortunately. Every player wants to avoid them but cheating to avoid injury isn't right in my opinion.
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If the keeper gets the ball first, he can take out the attacker afterwards to some degree (if the ball changes direction so that the attacker no longer can get to it). The penalty awarded to United was totally wrong. Gomes got the ball.

When running at high speed the slightest contact will put you off balance. The attacker has every right to go down. Especially when the ref never award the penalty if he stays on his feet.

I disagree that these injuries are part of the game. This is why attackers leave a leg behind. They make sure the feet is off the ground to avoid broken legs, but they still occupy the area which the keeper is about to enter. This looks like the attacker goes down early, and the attacker would look like a fool if the keeper actually manages to pull out.

Of course some injuries will happen, but the players must protect themselves. Jumping off the ground when a defender or the keeper clatters them is one way. I don't want to show videos of what happens if their feet is on the ground. There are horrendous leg breaks. And we have smaller injuries too. Remember Kane's small injury against Millwall? his foot was trapped between the ground and the defender. This is also one reason why the scissor tackles were outlawed. too many injuries.
 
They are strikers, not hurdlers. If you slide in and miss the ball but impede the player it' a foul.
You can't run at full pace with a ball and be expected to jump over a moving obstacle as well.
Granted, players over react, but as every ex player and pundit loves to say, stay on your feet. If you aren' sure you will get the ball, don't go to ground.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I've already said I want him to be aggressive and accept he will pick up yellow cards as all midfielders do. He has picked up yellow cards in consecutive games. Yes he still has 5 before he gets a ban but he is 5 closer to a ban than he should be. He needs to be smart and not accumulate them for diving or for needless fouls when the game is already won like against Liverpool and United. I accept he's one of our best young players but we shouldn't be making excuses him for when he picks up silly yellow cards and simply put it down to "that's how he plays".
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He has got 5 Yellow cards all season over 32 games.
There really is no problem.
He is not accumulating cards.

Dembele has 5 yellows over 26 games (1000 minutes less playing time than Alli).
Why is no one complaining about him in the Dembele thread?

Is it because of the media obsession with Dele Alli's behaviour?
I can see him being the centre of Raheem Sterling like tabloid vitriol when England fudge up in the summer.
 
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