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Davinson Sanchez

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not sure Id go that far!

Wanyama is a brick wall, and surprisingly not a bad footballer as well, but Id never see him as offering anything like Dembele on more than an occasional (once in a blue moon) basis.

Dier is much more of a 'footballer' and even he wouldnt really do it either.

The only way Id put them two together would be as @Ade's folks are ok really pointed and we needed an ultra hard to beat set up.

Or, possibly, if we elect to play a total lightweight in front of them.
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the season before Wanyama arrived we really struggled in the games Dembele missed, ppg was way down and we really struggle through the centre of the pitch - this wasn't the case last season whenever Dembele was out and without checking im inclined to think there was little to no change in our ppg in the games Dembele missed (due to the teams overall performance i wouldn't be surprised if it was actually up) that to me is down to Wanyama providing more able cover of what Dembele provides to our game - he is strong on the ball and able to hold off opposition players whilst bringing the ball forward.
 
Im not sure Id join the dots in the same way. The season before with no Demebele is was Mason coming in. Now its Dier or Winks - alongside Wanyama rather than without him or Dembele.

Wanyama is incredible in a defensive capacity, and as I said surprisingly can play a bit more than people expect, but I still never see him offering anything like what Demebele does to the team.
 
JerusalemMan said:
£25 million, now that they've got a new Chinese investor onboard.
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I think we are getting a bit carried away here. No one will pay £25m or even £20m for a CB that featured so sparingly for us last season and didn't impress, to boot. If we get £15m we should consider ourselves lucky.
 
alekaras said:
I think we are getting a bit carried away here. No one will pay £25m or even £20m for a CB that featured so sparingly for us last season and didn't impress, to boot. If we get £15m we should consider ourselves lucky.
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apparently we rejected Southampton's 20 mill bid
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not sure Id join the dots in the same way. The season before with no Demebele is was Mason coming in. Now its Dier or Winks - alongside Wanyama rather than without him or Dembele.

Wanyama is incredible in a defensive capacity, and as I said surprisingly can play a bit more than people expect, but I still never see him offering anything like what Demebele does to the team.
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you don't see Wanyama strong on the ball holding off opponents and bringing the ball forward in a similar fashion to Dembele? maybe not at the level of Dembele nor is he as capable a dribbler but he certainly displays those attributes quite frequently imo - alongside Dier who is more comfortable on the ball my overall point was that a partnership of the two potentially covers the roles we see from a Wanyama/Dembele partnership, or more so the overall quality of the partnership.

probably worth adding that in the context of my initial post im less talking about a full time switch to a Wanyama/Dier partnership and more so a backup partnership that we can use more often with Dier being freed up from being relied upon so much at CB, with the signing of Sanchez - being able to play Wanyama/Dier with Sanchez behind in the RCB position is a much stronger line up whenever Dembele is unavailable than our current options
 
Covering and shielding the ball, absolutely. Doing something with it? Not reliably at all. He just doesnt have the control or finese.

Dier would to *better* in that regard but still nothing like as good.

I think a Wanyama/Dier partnership wouldnt offer anything like a Dembele/Wanyama partnership, the team would be missing a beat, and it would be obvious why - no where near as effective.

Although, it could work tremendously if they put someone like Lamela right in front of them and played in a "just get the ball to him" sort of way.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Covering and shielding the ball, absolutely. Doing something with it? Not reliably at all. He just doesnt have the control or finese.

Dier would to *better* in that regard but still nothing like as good.

I think a Wanyama/Dier partnership wouldnt offer anything like a Dembele/Wanyama partnership, the team would be missing a beat, and it would be obvious why - no where near as effective.

Although, it could work tremendously if they put someone like Lamela right in front of them and played in a "just get the ball to him" sort of way.
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i dunno if you saw my edit but essentially im talking up a Wanyama/Dier partnership as a back up to Dembele/Wanyama - which is what making this Sanchez signing will allow us to play more often whenever Dembele is out - i dont expect our back up option to be quite as productive as our first choice so some drop off is to be expected, but if Dembele is unavailable and we can move Dier in to CM with Sanchez covering Dier at CB then we have improved our options from last season to this, imo
 
billyiddo said:
i dunno if you saw my edit but essentially im talking up a Wanyama/Dier partnership as a back up to Dembele/Wanyama - which is what making this Sanchez signing will allow us to play more often whenever Dembele is out - i dont expect our back up option to be quite as productive as our first choice so some drop off is to be expected, but if Dembele is unavailable and we can move Dier in to CM with Sanchez covering Dier at CB then we have improved our options from last season to this, imo
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Improved options, without doubt.

I just dont correlate Wanyama/Dembele as anything like Wanyama/Dier.

Its an option, but if we were playing it in a like-for-like scenario (IE no other tactical changes) then I just dont think it would do us many favours at all.

As an alternative tactical option to really stiffle a team? Brilliant - and possibly essential against the like of City this season.

Id be looking at the squad more as a 2 for each position point of view, with Winks a more natural successor to Demebele than either Wanyama or Dier who are basically interchangeable.

Bring Barkley in and its Dembele/Barkley and Wanyama/Dier as options in either CM position.
 
Ade's folks are ok really said:
...Which will see Dier off to United. He won't want to be a bit-part player in a WC year. But will José still be sniffing now he has his poster boy Matic?

And should we cash in on Dier, do the nerves start to wobble on keeping best friend Alli for much past 2018/19?
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Dier will get more than enough games at both CH and CM. He wouldn't play any more at Man Utd or Bayern Munich or any other decent club than he will at Spurs. Irrespective of the exact nature of people's 'first choice' team - there will be rotation for freshness, injuries, suspensions and dips in form.

I get the idea that Pochettino wants us to properly challenge on multiple fronts this year, that will mean keeping our key players fresh and also keeping their performances at a high level as the players will be aware that they have first class competition for their place. Last season I think that Pochettino only had 17 players that he felt he could fully trust: Lloris, Vorm, Walker, Trippier, Dier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Davies, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Lamela, Son, Eriksen, Alli and Kane. One of those has left the club, while two are injured without yet having proper return dates. After that we have the likes of Janssen, N'Koudou, Wimmer and Sissoko, who are either not ready yet, not good enough or somewhere in between depending on your viewpoint. However it is clear that Pochettino doesn't have the options to be able to rest players or do something like Chelsea did at the FA Cup semi final where they had 3 or 4 big-guns on the bench to change the game.

I think Pochettino would love to add 3 or 4 more players that he feels he can trust with a first team starting place. Players that will put pressure on the current first choice players and let them know that they have to perform at their best to keep their place. If bringing in those 3 or 4 good players results in a Wimmer or a Sissoko or a Janssen being pushed out then so be it.

Last season we defended brilliantly and the play from our full backs was superb. I wonder if that was because in all of the central defensive, holding midfield and right/left back positions there was a real sense of competition for places?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Dier will get more than enough games at both CH and CM. He wouldn't play any more at Man Utd or Bayern Munich or any other decent club than he will at Spurs. Irrespective of the exact nature of people's 'first choice' team - there will be rotation for freshness, injuries, suspensions and dips in form.

I get the idea that Pochettino wants us to properly challenge on multiple fronts this year, that will mean keeping our key players fresh and also keeping their performances at a high level as the players will be aware that they have first class competition for their place. Last season I think that Pochettino only had 17 players that he felt he could fully trust: Lloris, Vorm, Walker, Trippier, Dier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Davies, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Lamela, Son, Eriksen, Alli and Kane. One of those has left the club, while two are injured without yet having proper return dates. After that we have the likes of Janssen, N'Koudou, Wimmer and Sissoko, who are either not ready yet, not good enough or somewhere in between depending on your viewpoint. However it is clear that Pochettino doesn't have the options to be able to rest players or do something like Chelsea did at the FA Cup semi final where they had 3 or 4 big-guns on the bench to change the game.

I think Pochettino would love to add 3 or 4 more players that he feels he can trust with a first team starting place. Players that will put pressure on the current first choice players and let them know that they have to perform at their best to keep their place. If bringing in those 3 or 4 good players results in a Wimmer or a Sissoko or a Janssen being pushed out then so be it.

Last season we defended brilliantly and the play from our full backs was superb. I wonder if that was because in all of the central defensive, holding midfield and right/left back positions there was a real sense of competition for places?
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in fairness we also had a good record at the other end of the pitch... with Lamela injured, Janssen/Sissoko not really performing and only Son providing the competition we can't put the good return in attack down to competition for places - so is the conclusion there that a bit more in attack would have seen us over the line in the league or come away with a cup or a better performance in Europe? for my money, yes it would have.

i really hope these recent transfers links are an indication of the numbers/level of quality we are looking to bring in before the window closes - because we arent far away at all from being able to match our rivals like for like over all competitions and we're able to do that without breaking the bank, id certainly be disappointed if the summer window closes and we haven't made a real go of strenghening
 
Ade's folks are ok really said:
...Which will see Dier off to United. He won't want to be a bit-part player in a WC year. But will José still be sniffing now he has his poster boy Matic?

And should we cash in on Dier, do the nerves start to wobble on keeping best friend Alli for much past 2018/19?
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And martial to us?

Sent from my SM-T819Y using Fapatalk
 
I was impressed when i watched the Dier/Wanyama partnership last season, i know a lot of fans thought it was to defensive but i never saw that at all. It seems that one of two of those who thought that way have decided and agree with my ( and others) opinions that they are both able to play on the ball and are not just defensive minded.
 
I dont think they are 'just' defensive minded.

I have always applauded Dier for being a very complete and versatile footballer (and potential captain IMO). And have put my hands up to being very surprised by Wanyama not being just a tackler.

That said, there are degrees of quality on the ball between either of them and Dembele. And I think his absence is ALWAYS noticeable as a result.

Even in games he misses and we dont do badly we are still off our usual game.

I think this is why Winks was more likely to start in Dembeles absence, given how well he uses the ball.
 
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