Daniel Levy - Chairman

[nelto]

When you're up against this type of move, how are ENIC, Spurs and Levy meant to compete? It appears that UK taxpayers, not Abramovich, have effectively bankrolled Chelsea without their knowledge. HMRC are useless. Chelsea are now getting a free pass on all of this due to the sale money being frozen and possibly being given to Ukraine someday. Thank fudge Abramovich didn't buy us, I'd hate for us to have been involved in any of this.

Roman Abramovich could owe UK £1bn in unpaid tax

Scheme to avoid tax on offshore billions may have been botched because money was managed from the UK, BBC learns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Abramovich dodged millions in tax with superyachts-for-hire scheme

Shell companies were used to charter the sanctioned oligarch’s yachts to himself, evading VAT, BBC reveals.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Robspur12]

It’s mad stuff. And then you have people talking as if we were up to our bollox in trophies before ENIC arrived. As @Raziel mentions, we are two trophies short under ENIC of our average as a club

With respect Deano, I don't think that argument, while there is some validity in it, gets ENIC off the hook in terms of the way they have run the football side of things. 25 years and 1 trophy does feel like a particular barren period

Not all of it is on ENIC of course, individual managers must take a share of the blame. However, on the recruitment of managers since Poch, some of the decisions have been baffling. Bringing in successful managers sounds like a good strategy. But when you don't back them with the top quality signings that they need then it's a waste of money. It felt like ENIC just wanted to bring in big names for the sake of looking ambitious rather than being serious about success.

The less said about the current appointment the better. And the prevarication over sacking him, given the results and our current downward trajectory, is astonishing. Couple that with the failure to bring in the desired players for managers at key moments has cost us greatly.

Every club has made mistakes on the manager and player recruitment side but even then, some of the errors made by a very intelligent chairman, to quote a legend, leaves one scratching their head.

 

[DeanoAustin]

With respect Deano, I don't think that argument, while there is some validity in it, gets ENIC off the hook in terms of the way they have run the football side of things. 25 years and 1 trophy does feel like a particular barren period

Not all of it is on ENIC of course, individual managers must take a share of the blame. However, on the recruitment of managers since Poch, some of the decisions have been baffling. Bringing in successful managers sounds like a good strategy. But when you don't back them with the top quality signings that they need then it's a waste of money. It felt like ENIC just wanted to bring in big names for the sake of looking ambitious rather than being serious about success.

The less said about the current appointment the better. And the prevarication over sacking him, given the results and our current downward trajectory, is astonishing. Couple that with the failure to bring in the desired players for managers at key moments has cost us greatly.

Every club has made mistakes on the manager and player recruitment side but even then, some of the errors made by a very intelligent chairman, to quote a legend, leaves one scratching their head.

All fair points and I wouldn't dare try to defend some of those decisions. On the Jose and Conte thing, I don't believe it was just for show, I genuinely think that Levy thought they would get us over the line as they are proven winners and given that Poch, who wasn't a proven winner, got us to the line and fell just short. I actually believed that both would get us there but there were other issues which prevented that (which, to be fair, many people here did call out when they were appointed).

1 trophy in 25 years is a poor return and will always be a justifiable stick to beat Levy with. However, looking big picture, it's not a million miles from our average as a club. We've definitely underachieved on the trophy front under ENIC but not to the extent that some seem to believe.

And, again, I'm not defending the underachievement but there have been wins on the footballing front (strong league finishes) and you have two clubs who won the lottery which has meant that the number of teams winning trophies has narrowed (particularly in the League Cup).

 

[Raziel]

When you're up against this type of move, how are ENIC, Spurs and Levy meant to compete? It appears that UK taxpayers, not Abramovich, have effectively bankrolled Chelsea without their knowledge. HMRC are useless. Chelsea are now getting a free pass on all of this due to the sale money being frozen and possibly being given to Ukraine someday. Thank fudge Abramovich didn't buy us, I'd hate for us to have been involved in any of this.

Roman Abramovich could owe UK £1bn in unpaid tax

Scheme to avoid tax on offshore billions may have been botched because money was managed from the UK, BBC learns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Abramovich dodged millions in tax with superyachts-for-hire scheme

Shell companies were used to charter the sanctioned oligarch’s yachts to himself, evading VAT, BBC reveals.

www.bbc.co.uk

On top of that, the "transparent" version of Chelsea lost 1M/week for 13 years under RA

 

[Lilbaz]

It was time bound as a draw down but it’s hard to say where it has all gone

It was mentioned itvwas extended.

 

[Bishop]

The fat lady has never sung before after 23 games.

She didn't even sing when we had 2 points from 8 games under Ramos, or got battered by Saudi Sportswashing Machine under AVB.

Making Munn and Lange the fall guys isn't fair.

Say it with me....T...E...F...L...O...N.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

ENIC have never taken any money out, to date
I’ve heard it claimed they have taken land… I’ve never seen that and I looked into that because I’m sad git
They have however put in less than £200m for an asset valued at over 10 times that
That’s a hell of a return
You won’t ever see that again in football

What is it a 23 year investment?

For their valuation of let's say £3bn minus the 850m debt ...

It a compounded investment of approx 11% a year on what they've put in.

Hardly mind blowing.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

With respect Deano, I don't think that argument, while there is some validity in it, gets ENIC off the hook in terms of the way they have run the football side of things. 25 years and 1 trophy does feel like a particular barren period

Not all of it is on ENIC of course, individual managers must take a share of the blame. However, on the recruitment of managers since Poch, some of the decisions have been baffling. Bringing in successful managers sounds like a good strategy. But when you don't back them with the top quality signings that they need then it's a waste of money. It felt like ENIC just wanted to bring in big names for the sake of looking ambitious rather than being serious about success.

The less said about the current appointment the better. And the prevarication over sacking him, given the results and our current downward trajectory, is astonishing. Couple that with the failure to bring in the desired players for managers at key moments has cost us greatly.

Every club has made mistakes on the manager and player recruitment side but even then, some of the errors made by a very intelligent chairman, to quote a legend, leaves one scratching their head.

....and quite possibly Chelsea and City take some of the 'blame' ... something beyond our own self loathing.

 

[scaramanga]

What is it a 23 year investment?

For their valuation of let's say £3bn minus the 850m debt ...

It a compounded investment of approx 11% a year on what they've put in.

Hardly mind blowing.

My ISAs have done better than that.

 

[Muttley]

What is it a 23 year investment?

For their valuation of let's say £3bn minus the 850m debt ...

It a compounded investment of approx 11% a year on what they've put in.

Hardly mind blowing.

So £30m with a CAGR of 11% over 23 years gets to about £330m. The extra £150m was put in in 2022/23 season so can only be considered then.

The actual CAGR to get £30m into £2.15b is about 33%.

Unless I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What is it a 23 year investment?

For their valuation of let's say £3bn minus the 850m debt ...

It a compounded investment of approx 11% a year on what they've put in.

Hardly mind blowing.

The valuation includes the debt if you allow for rumours

 

[Raziel]

What is it a 23 year investment?

For their valuation of let's say £3bn minus the 850m debt ...

It a compounded investment of approx 11% a year on what they've put in.

Hardly mind blowing.

Football is a brick business, another part that escapes everyone, the achievement is the fact that we are anywhere close to it being a good investment. We are the only team in the green in the entire PL over last 3 years, expand that over 2 decades? probably the fudging same, 1 of 1.

Chelsea lost £1M/week before fudging new owners went on coke binge, fudge knows how many years the ROI on that investment will take
Pool dumped a huge amount of their debt in last owner change (jammy fudgers)
United is up to their ass in debt and have huge catch investments in infrastructure to make (billions)
City, not sure I need to comment

And the non top clubs that have improved (Forest/Villa), even the ones that are still struggling (Everton/Leicester) are all financially a brick show, in debt, on PSR radar.

And I get, most fans don't give a fudge how bad the finances are until in bites them in the ass ..

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

So £30m with a CAGR of 11% over 23 years gets to about £330m. The extra £150m was put in in 2022/23 season so can only be considered then.

The actual CAGR to get £30m into £2.15b is about 33%.

Unless I'm doing something wrong.

Yes, I was being a tad flexible with the inputs timeline but that is still their (potential )Roi.

I think more accurately, early on they paid £22m to Sugar another £25m to Sugar a bit later and probably something similar to all the small shareholders to take there ownership percentage to 83%. So early times initial outlay around £75m.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Football is a brick business, another part that escapes everyone, the achievement is the fact that we are anywhere close to it being a good investment. We are the only team in the green in the entire PL over last 3 years, expand that over 2 decades? probably the fudging same, 1 of 1.

Chelsea lost £1M/week before fudging new owners went on coke binge, fudge knows how many years the ROI on that investment will take
Pool dumped a huge amount of their debt in last owner change (jammy fudgers)
United is up to their ass in debt and have huge catch investments in infrastructure to make (billions)
City, not sure I need to comment

And the non top clubs that have improved (Forest/Villa), even the ones that are still struggling (Everton/Leicester) are all financially a brick show, in debt, on PSR radar.

And I get, most fans don't give a fudge how bad the finances are until in bites them in the ass ..

I agree, it's a business sector like no other.

 

[Raziel]

I agree, it's a business sector like no other.

It is, look at how fans/media view it

- Spurs are brick because they are a viable business, not even a fudging footnote that maybe, if FFP/PSR was properly managed/enforced Spurs would be the only club in a good position ..

Chelsea is a great example, fudging ponzi scheme (or something else), lets throw a whole bunch of money at this and hope general football club appreciation, tv rights and some of the 900 players we bought exceed their current value by multiples. On what data?

 

[Stiff_Swede]

Isn't the end game for owners that aren't doing it for sport washing reasons to be able to sell the club and then get a big pay day?
Seems like a lot of people thinks PL clubs are profitable, but almost all of them reports big losses 22-23.
For the financial year ending June 30, 2023, Tottenham Hotspur reported a loss after tax of £86.8 million.

Levy and Spurs need to take on more risk and start to work in grey areas to compete with Chelsea and the like. A BIG cash injection would probably also be needed.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Isn't the end game for owners that aren't doing it for sport washing reasons to be able to sell the club and then get a big pay day?
Seems like a lot of people thinks PL clubs are profitable, but almost all of them reports big losses 22-23.
For the financial year ending June 30, 2023, Tottenham Hotspur reported a loss after tax of £86.8 million.

Levy and Spurs need to take on more risk and start to work in grey areas to compete with Chelsea and the like. A BIG cash injection would probably also be needed.

The loss is because the club are depreciating the stadium over a reasonably short period. Each clubs' EBITDA number would tend to give more accurate information.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

The loss is because the club are depreciating the stadium over a reasonably short period. Each clubs' EBITDA number would tend to give more accurate information.

Maybe free cash flow, would give the best view? Not a fan of EBITDA myself. I tried looking for free cash flow (This text below about risk was the only thing I found), my guess is that it is negative or close to zero? And why a cash injection could do good for the club?

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Reports all over the place now that Tel has turned us down. And for me this sums it all up. Throw everything at another player that looks at us and thinks

Ambitious? No

Has a real desire to win? No

Will they pay me decent money? No

Would love to have been a fly on the wall as Tel told Scrooge's offspring 'I er....no'.

Levy, source of the bleed. The man NEEDS to go.

 

[Jordinho]

Reports all over the place now that Tel has turned us down. And for me this sums it all up. Throw everything at another player that looks at us and thinks

Ambitious? No

Has a real desire to win? No

Will they pay me decent money? No

Would love to have been a fly on the wall as Tel told Scrooge's offspring 'I er....no'.

Levy, source of the bleed. The man NEEDS to go.

Or, we can't guarantee him a regular starting spot, which is why he wants to leave Bayern in the first place.