Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Muttley]

I mean, yeah that's nice in theory. But then you look at clubs golden eras of winning things - Emirates Marketing Project under Pep, the Goons under Wenger, Liverpool with Klopp etc they have done so being there for a good period of time. Other than Chelsea who we are never going to be this is how it's done, and one of Levy's problems is that he is always chopping and changing managers.

At a Brightons level it is not so difficult to have continuation of managers, but to reach the very top like everyone wants here especially from our starting point? It takes years, and flitting from manager to manager will likely set us back regardless of having a talented squad....

There is such a subtle difference though. Sheikh Mansaur and John Henry don't even pretend they should be the ones to make any football decisions including hiring and firing managers. John Henry is an American entrepreneur that grew up on a farm. He is a self made billionaire who eventually saw one of his sporting interests Red Sox win the world series under his company, The Fenway Sports Group. He then bought into LFC and immediately put football people everywhere. He even had a senior leader for the first few years whose only role was to represent LFC back in the US. That guy just continuously cross the Atlantic and get the new LFC senior leadership team what was required to be successful. Mansaur has put a similar leadership team of football people around Pep, just like Henry did with Klopp.

The Arsenal model was different though. I often wonder whether because David Dein and Arsene Wenger worked so well as 2 in the box that Levy thought he was qualified to be a David Dein with his own managers. I think Spurs fans see it more clearly now but the harsh reality is that Levy doesn't have the same football DNA in him. It's not that he doesn't have massive passion for Spurs, but he's simply not qualified to be making football operations decisions like hiring and firing managers. He shouldn't have an opinion either on player valuations, and personally I would have been happier if he was never involved in a single football player negotiation.

It's been quite pleasing to see that Levy is finally becoming a John Henry, rather than a David Dein. If Todd Boehly is smart, he will get himself out of football operations as well.

LOL, you'd never want to sit in between Levy and Boehly and watch a football match together. You'd end up wanting to strangle them midway through the second half. I couldn't imagine the crap they'd be coming out with about what's happening on the pitch.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Gray is a fine signing. I think the true focus has been on cutting the dead weight and our wage bill. I don't see a scenario where we woud ever have got Solanke and Eze in the same window TBH. I think the Eze situation in the summer will be intriguing as there's an argument which says that if Moore fast-tracks the second haklf of the season, we will not need him after all p

Doesn't Eze get injured quite a bit? Genuine qs. I would like him too but seeing how often our players end up on the table......

 

[Muttley]

Doesn't Eze get injured quite a bit? Genuine qs. I would like him too but seeing how often our players end up on the table......

Looks like the answer is no - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eberechi-eze/verletzungen/spieler/479999

Except for an achilles tendon issue in 20/21 that cost him 26 matches, he's only ever missed a few games. The good news is that he is recovering from a minor hamstring injury now, so we probably get to see whether he bounces back and plays the rest of the season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There is such a subtle difference though. Sheikh Mansaur and John Henry don't even pretend they should be the ones to make any football decisions including hiring and firing managers. John Henry is an American entrepreneur that grew up on a farm. He is a self made billionaire who eventually saw one of his sporting interests Red Sox win the world series under his company, The Fenway Sports Group. He then bought into LFC and immediately put football people everywhere. He even had a senior leader for the first few years whose only role was to represent LFC back in the US. That guy just continuously cross the Atlantic and get the new LFC senior leadership team what was required to be successful. Mansaur has put a similar leadership team of football people around Pep, just like Henry did with Klopp.

The Arsenal model was different though. I often wonder whether because David Dein and Arsene Wenger worked so well as 2 in the box that Levy thought he was qualified to be a David Dein with his own managers. I think Spurs fans see it more clearly now but the harsh reality is that Levy doesn't have the same football DNA in him. It's not that he doesn't have massive passion for Spurs, but he's simply not qualified to be making football operations decisions like hiring and firing managers. He shouldn't have an opinion either on player valuations, and personally I would have been happier if he was never involved in a single football player negotiation.

It's been quite pleasing to see that Levy is finally becoming a John Henry, rather than a David Dein. If Todd Boehly is smart, he will get himself out of football operations as well.

LOL, you'd never want to sit in between Levy and Boehly and watch a football match together. You'd end up wanting to strangle them midway through the second half. I couldn't imagine the crap they'd be coming out with about what's happening on the pitch.

Boehly doesn’t have the leadership role now
It’s Egbally or whoever you write his name
You have to remember with the guys you mention they were billionaires before buying the club
For levy this is his Billion. His baby
No businessmen relinquishes control of the thing they believe they have created

 

[Muttley]

Boehly doesn’t have the leadership role now
It’s Egbally or whoever you write his name
You have to remember with the guys you mention they were billionaires before buying the club
For levy this is his Billion. His baby
No businessmen relinquishes control of the thing they believe they have created

Just don't agree with that. If you run startups and scale-ups, you hire the expertise when you can afford it. Levy could always afford to bring in more football DNA around him. He chose not to as he couldn't see his own weakness. Even he saw it himself in the end. He could have had it from Day 1 without it making a single bit of difference to him riding the money football train and turning his £30m into a billion.

 

[Baleforce]

Just don't agree with that. If you run startups and scale-ups, you hire the expertise when you can afford it. Levy could always afford to bring in more football DNA around him. He chose not to as he couldn't see his own weakness. Even he saw it himself in the end. He could have had it from Day 1 without it making a single bit of difference to him riding the money football train and turning his £30m into a billion.

What is football DNA, how do you measure it and how is it explained on a CV?

It seems like a nonsense term to me, but happy to be proved wrong if someone can quantify it.

 

[Lemonade Money]

LOL, you'd never want to sit in between Levy and Boehly and watch a football match together.

I would. Plenty of questions for Levy to last the 90 minutes.

 

[Muttley]

I would. Plenty of questions for Levy to last the 90 minutes.

Oh, you've taken this in a completely new direction. I was talking about watching the football.

Love it

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just don't agree with that. If you run startups and scale-ups, you hire the expertise when you can afford it. Levy could always afford to bring in more football DNA around him. He chose not to as he couldn't see his own weakness. Even he saw it himself in the end. He could have had it from Day 1 without it making a single bit of difference to him riding the money football train and turning his £30m into a billion.

I’m not disagreeing
But I’m saying they are different examples
A better one would be the guys at Brentford and Brighton
People who have built the club up, although again they already had their money in advance

 

[Muttley]

I’m not disagreeing
But I’m saying they are different examples
A better one would be the guys at Brentford and Brighton
People who have built the club up, although again they already had their money in advance

I don't know much about the owners of either. What I do remember is how Potter ended up taking on more and more responsibilities when he was there for the Brighton owner. The club loved that he was incredibly proprietorial about their business rather than just be the selfish manager who wants, wants, wants and doesn't care about the implications.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Boehly doesn’t have the leadership role now
It’s Egbally or whoever you write his name
You have to remember with the guys you mention they were billionaires before buying the club
For levy this is his Billion. His baby
No businessmen relinquishes control of the thing they believe they have created

Just don't agree with that. If you run startups and scale-ups, you hire the expertise when you can afford it. Levy could always afford to bring in more football DNA around him. He chose not to as he couldn't see his own weakness. Even he saw it himself in the end. He could have had it from Day 1 without it making a single bit of difference to him riding the money football train and turning his £30m into a billion.

I think there are elements of truth in both of your comments.

I personally think Levy kept things within a very small closed group up until the stadium was finished. He didn't want outside interference, extra internal unneeded pressures and demands that may knock him of course. He saw it as a massive task, a complex task but fair play to him, he went at it head on and with unbelievable drive. Hence the amazing result.

It's also fair to say we didn't suffer too much because Poch was exceptional. To the extent that it was our best period for decades. I often wonder how everything would have been if the on pitch wasn't going so smoothly. A real godsend for DL.(Although that period did/has raised fans expectations)

I think DL really sees the stadium as his big achievement and his legacy. And I'm sure he realises now that there is not much he can do to secure success on the pitch besides provide money. It would be foolish as a business though to discount completely from football operations someone that has 25 years as essentially a PL sporting director, even just for contacts and advice.

He's in a tricky spot as I'm sure he wants trophies as the icing on the cake, just so his tenure is complete (and it won't be a stick to beat him with) BUT I'm not sure even he knows the path to that. He probably thought he'd be the example of how to do things the 'right way' and gain success, but there are so many uncontrollables and utter madness in football, that being the sensible, sustainable, pragmatic guy doesn't get you the rewards.

Perhaps they are still to come

 

[Grays_1890]

Just don't agree with that. If you run startups and scale-ups, you hire the expertise when you can afford it. Levy could always afford to bring in more football DNA around him. He chose not to as he couldn't see his own weakness. Even he saw it himself in the end. He could have had it from Day 1 without it making a single bit of difference to him riding the money football train and turning his £30m into a billion.

I am not defending Levy here but he has done that to an extent hiring DOFs of varying profiles and levels over the years. One of which used the Bale money poorly as an example.

 

[Grays_1890]

What is football DNA, how do you measure it and how is it explained on a CV?

It seems like a nonsense term to me, but happy to be proved wrong if someone can quantify it.

I also think its not exactly a cure all. Plenty of footballers no nothing about football, make poor managers, lack commercial sense so you can appoint as many ex "football people" and there are absolutely zero certainties that it means success.

 

[Baleforce]

I also think its not exactly a cure all. Plenty of footballers no nothing about football, make poor managers, lack commercial sense so you can appoint as many ex "football people" and there are absolutely zero certainties that it means success.

Indeed, I’ve been playing for 40 years, my football DNA must be sky high.

It doesn’t show on my FA FAN resume next to my coaching qualifications either for some reason…

 

[Bishop]

I never said financial parity. Just that clubs should be self sufficient. Which was the whole idea of ffp. Cutting cl revenues (giving half to fa's). Would mean you limit the mega clubs. It's what should have been agreed on 30 years ago.

But why self sufficiency? Why not go the whole hog and make it parity across all clubs if we want fairness and competition. Self sufficiency suits our Interests because we don't have owners willing to finance us and we already follow that model. We have all the outside income from hotels, racing track, NFL etc. So yes self sufficiently suits us but if we had owner financing I bet the vast majority of fans would be happy enough supporting that.

I don't personally respect owner financing, it doesn't show any particular skill in running a club is involved but likewise as a London club we have a massive in built advantage in terms of ancillary projects and attractions. So is that the reason self sufficiency looks attractive, because we will likely do better out of it compared to others? Bolton is never going to have an NFL team.

If we are going to talk about what is best for the game then parity is the answer, self sufficiency doesn't go far enough.

 

[Lilbaz]

But why self sufficiency? Why not go the whole hog and make it parity across all clubs if we want fairness and competition. Self sufficiency suits our Interests because we don't have owners willing to finance us and we already follow that model. We have all the outside income from hotels, racing track, NFL etc. So yes self sufficiently suits us but if we had owner financing I bet the vast majority of fans would be happy enough supporting that.

I don't personally respect owner financing, it doesn't show any particular skill in running a club is involved but likewise as a London club we have a massive in built advantage in terms of ancillary projects and attractions. So is that the reason self sufficiency looks attractive, because we will likely do better out of it compared to others? Bolton is never going to have an NFL team.

If we are going to talk about what is best for the game then parity is the answer, self sufficiency doesn't go far enough.

Self sufficiency so that it doesn't put clubs at risk.
An american model is impossible. You'd have to match the wages to the smallest clubs in europe or have a shared revenue with all clubs. With the pyramid structure it can't work.

 

[Muttley]

I am not defending Levy here but he has done that to an extent hiring DOFs of varying profiles and levels over the years. One of which used the Bale money poorly as an example.

So, so different though.

Our DoF's have been members of staff that mostly focus on recruitment. They have been like consultants.
A Chief Football Officer (CFO) or MD of Football is a board member that runs the football P&L

To ricky's point above, the reason why Poch was so special is because he was proprietorial about THFC. He treated his employers money like it was his own money. The first thing he did was clear up the mess that you mention above. It took him 2 summers to rationalise that squad down to a lean machine that could be successful on the pitch. He shifted over 30 senior players (21 or over) working with the rest of the leadership team.

It was the same mess that happened over and over in the tenure of a Levy football ops model. It wasn't that Levy wasn't trying to do the right thing for his managers. It was that he didn't know how to because of his own lack of football DNA. He was the same with Stockpile Harry, as well as Jose and Conte, albeit there was light at the end of the tunnel because Paratici finally brought some strategy and execution in the early part of this decade. Levy never got near to running an optimal P&L in over 20 years on the football side. It was always a cyclical mess that needed major overhauls to clean up.

It's why my fingers are crossed. We finally have a CFO in Munn, and a Dof in Lange and we have another one of those proprietorial managers in Ange who operates as a "Spurs manager". He's not like Jose or Conte who just nodded their heads in the interview and then did their own things. He's not junior like Stockpile Harry who just acted like a kiddie in the sweetshop after decades of managing small clubs.

Levy joined in 2000 and in my opinion it should have taken him less than 5 years to put in place what we have today. He should have been all over his own weaknesses as great leaders are. I just pray that Munn is a great football person, as well as a great businessman. It's what Levy needs the most.

 

[Grays_1890]

So, so different though.

Our DoF's have been members of staff that mostly focus on recruitment. They have been like consultants.
A Chief Football Officer (CFO) or MD of Football is a board member that runs the football P&L

To ricky's point above, the reason why Poch was so special is because he was proprietorial about THFC. He treated his employers money like it was his own money. The first thing he did was clear up the mess that you mention above. It took him 2 summers to rationalise that squad down to a lean machine that could be successful on the pitch. He shifted over 30 senior players (21 or over) working with the rest of the leadership team.

It was the same mess that happened over and over in the tenure of a Levy football ops model. It wasn't that Levy wasn't trying to do the right thing for his managers. It was that he didn't know how to because of his own lack of football DNA. He was the same with Stockpile Harry, as well as Jose and Conte, albeit there was light at the end of the tunnel because Paratici finally brought some strategy and execution in the early part of this decade. Levy never got near to running an optimal P&L in over 20 years on the football side. It was always a cyclical mess that needed major overhauls to clean up.

It's why my fingers are crossed. We finally have a CFO in Munn, and a Dof in Lange and we have another one of those proprietorial managers in Ange who operates as a "Spurs manager". He's not like Jose or Conte who just nodded their heads in the interview and then did their own things. He's not junior like Stockpile Harry who just acted like a kiddie in the sweetshop after decades of managing small clubs.

Levy joined in 2000 and in my opinion it should have taken him less than 5 years to put in place what we have today. He should have been all over his own weaknesses as great leaders are. I just pray that Munn is a great football person, as well as a great businessman. It's what Levy needs the most.

The issue there is there are not many "football men" who have the gumption to be that level.

Without having looked are there any in the PL at the level who have a real footballing background to be classed as footballing people?

 

[Muttley]

The issue there is there are not many "football men" who have the gumption to be that level.

Without having looked are there any in the PL at the level who have a real footballing background to be classed as footballing people?

They are there if you look closely. Take a look at the most successful club.

Ferran Soriano: CEO and Managing Director of Operations
Roel de Vries: Group Chief Operating Officer
Ingo Bank: Chief Financial Officer
Simon Cliff: General Counsel
Simon Heggie: Chief Communications Officer
Carolyn Macnab: Chief People Officer
Brian Marwood: Managing Director of Global Football
Txiki Begiristain: Director of Football (Hugo Viana taking over)
Nuria Tarre: Chief Marketing Officer
Greg Swimer: Chief Technology Officer
Jorgina Busquets: Managing Director of Football Education, Recreation & Partner Clubs
Peter Laundy: Senior Vice President of Partnerships
Danny Wilson: Managing Director, Emirates Marketing Project Operations
Pep Guardiola: Manager

Ferran Soriano's book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goal-Doesnt-Chance-Management-Football/dp/0230355153
Contains fascinating facts that aren't found in either the sports or business press that reveal the behind the scenes world of international football. Soriano teaches us the importance of strategy as he examines how managers can waste millions of euros making decisions that lack any logic at all in both football and business.

Won't be buying it, looking at the price

 

[Grays_1890]

They are there if you look closely. Take a look at the most successful club.

Ferran Soriano: CEO and Managing Director of Operations
Roel de Vries: Group Chief Operating Officer
Ingo Bank: Chief Financial Officer
Simon Cliff: General Counsel
Simon Heggie: Chief Communications Officer
Carolyn Macnab: Chief People Officer
Brian Marwood: Managing Director of Global Football
Txiki Begiristain: Director of Football (Hugo Viana taking over)
Nuria Tarre: Chief Marketing Officer
Greg Swimer: Chief Technology Officer
Jorgina Busquets: Managing Director of Football Education, Recreation & Partner Clubs
Peter Laundy: Senior Vice President of Partnerships
Danny Wilson: Managing Director, Emirates Marketing Project Operations
Pep Guardiola: Manager

Ferran Soriano's book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goal-Doesnt-Chance-Management-Football/dp/0230355153
Contains fascinating facts that aren't found in either the sports or business press that reveal the behind the scenes world of international football. Soriano teaches us the importance of strategy as he examines how managers can waste millions of euros making decisions that lack any logic at all in both football and business.

Won't be buying it, looking at the price

Fair enough, without checking I take it they are all at City?