Coronavirus

[Jurgen the German]

Interesting. How far would you go with this? Would you introduce them as a rule to get the tube/train, go to see a GP or go shopping (whether big supermarket or local butcher/grocery shop)?

Not sure about public transport, shopping, doctors surgeries etc, but in places like football stadiums, arenas, theatres, nightclubs etc where you have mass gatherings of people then yes I think it would be a sensible approach to adopt. I don’t think it’s right to enforce the vaccine if you don’t want to have it, but it is putting yourself and others at risk so for that reason I’d be all for vaccine passports. I do also strongly believe that public bodies should have the right to require vaccinations, the Australian open has already said it will more than likely only allow entry to players who have had the vaccine. Which means Djokovic may not be permitted to play.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not sure about public transport, shopping, doctors surgeries etc, but in places like football stadiums, arenas, theatres, nightclubs etc where you have mass gatherings of people then yes I think it would be a sensible approach to adopt. I don’t think it’s right to enforce the vaccine if you don’t want to have it, but it is putting yourself and others at risk so for that reason I’d be all for vaccine passports. I do also strongly believe that public bodies should have the right to require vaccinations, the Australian open has already said it will more than likely only allow entry to players who have had the vaccine. Which means Djokovic may not be permitted to play.

I'd also give employers the right to not employ or dismiss anyone who isn't vaccinated. It would be their choice. Reason being somebody infected can close down the place of employment.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not sure about public transport, shopping, doctors surgeries etc, but in places like football stadiums, arenas, theatres, nightclubs etc where you have mass gatherings of people then yes I think it would be a sensible approach to adopt. I don’t think it’s right to enforce the vaccine if you don’t want to have it, but it is putting yourself and others at risk so for that reason I’d be all for vaccine passports. I do also strongly believe that public bodies should have the right to require vaccinations, the Australian open has already said it will more than likely only allow entry to players who have had the vaccine. Which means Djokovic may not be permitted to play.

But public transport, shopping, surgeries etc are all places where you have 'mass gatherings' and where virus spread can happen so i really don't see what the difference is is; how does one draw the line?
The risk element you talk about is a bit moot i'd say given that the vaccine does not stop one catching it OR stop one transmitting it (only perhaps reduces the symptoms or chances of hospitalizations and even that might be considered debatable in some areas).
If the vaccine doesn't stop one catching it or spreading it then the vaccine passports cannot be seen to be about health (as opposed to just a backdoor to building an ID card/surveillance system...)

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'd also give employers the right to not employ or dismiss anyone who isn't vaccinated. It would be their choice. Reason being somebody infected can close down the place of employment.

Again, that is on the basis that an employee who has had the vaccine cannot catch it or transmit it; and we know that the vaccine does not stop you catching it or transmitting, so it makes no sense

 

[Lilbaz]

Again, that is on the basis that an employee who has had the vaccine cannot catch it or transmit it; and we know that the vaccine does not stop you catching it or transmitting, so it makes no sense

No it isn't. It's under the basis the employee has got vaccinated in order to protect themselves, their colleagues and the company. If they have been vaccinated and get sick fair enough i as an employer will pay their sick pay. If they haven't and have been a selfish/lazy taco. They can fudge off.

 

[glorygloryeze]

No it isn't. It's under the basis the employee has got vaccinated in order to protect themselves, their colleagues and the company. If they have been vaccinated and get sick fair enough i as an employer will pay their sick pay. If they haven't and have been a selfish/lazy taco. They can fudge off.

Oh ok, what if that employee has had covid-19 before (and has antibodies) and gets it again? What if they had covid-19 before but had the vaccine but got it again and also had to have time off?

Also, what policy do you have for other diseases/ailments aside from coronavirus?

For example, if an employee gets chicken pox (which is far more painful/dangerous as an adult compared to a child) and has to take time off will you insist on no sick pay because they have no record of having had chicken pox as a chiold or a chicken pox vaccine (as is mandated in some countries)?

Also, if a employee has to have chemotherapy for lung cancer will you withold pay because you know they are, or have been, a chain smoker?

Where do you draw your lines?

 

[scaramanga]

Some people seem to actually WANT the government to introduce lockdowns again...

That's what a nannying government does - create a country of catastrophising bedwetters.

 

[Grays_1890]

I'd also give employers the right to not employ or dismiss anyone who isn't vaccinated. It would be their choice. Reason being somebody infected can close down the place of employment.

What if they do that and someone who is double vaxed infects the company and takes down the workforce

 

[Grays_1890]

No it isn't. It's under the basis the employee has got vaccinated in order to protect themselves, their colleagues and the company. If they have been vaccinated and get sick fair enough i as an employer will pay their sick pay. If they haven't and have been a selfish/lazy taco. They can fudge off.

So if someone comes to work double vaxxed and takes down the work force that's cool but if it's someone who isn't vaxxed you would fire them? Sounds odd

 

[glorygloryeze]

That's what a nannying government does - create a country of catastrophising bedwetters.

I truly hope if another lockdown comes that masses take personal responsibility as best they can but ignore the restrictions.
All the meet-ups that the government and other bigwigs have had where their servants wear masks whilst they themselves don't should tell people that any lockdowns from here are no longer to do with 'infection control'...

I won't even mention the various "one rule for thee, another for me" lockdown breaches that many of 'them' have made..

 

[Lilbaz]

Oh ok, what if that employee has had covid-19 before (and has antibodies) and gets it again? What if they had covid-19 before but had the vaccine but got it again and also had to have time off?

Also, what policy do you have for other diseases/ailments aside from coronavirus?

For example, if an employee gets chicken pox (which is far more painful/dangerous as an adult compared to a child) and has to take time off will you insist on no sick pay because they have no record of having had chicken pox as a chiold or a chicken pox vaccine (as is mandated in some countries)?

Also, if a employee has to have chemotherapy for lung cancer will you withold pay because you know they are, or have been, a chain smoker?

Where do you draw your lines?

I draw my lines at covid. As it would have disrupted my business far more in the last 2 years.

As i said it would be up to the employer.

 

[Grays_1890]

Interesting. How far would you go with this? Would you introduce them as a rule to get the tube/train, go to see a GP or go shopping (whether big supermarket or local butcher/grocery shop)?

Isn't the proof now that the differential between contagiousness of the vaxxed and unvaxxed is negligible so its basically a vaccine to protect yourself? On that basis it's gotta be a personal choice thing? I'm double jabbed personally but if m6 35 year old neighbour decides not to I'm not sure it's a healthy society measure to treat him like he has done something wrong and place exclusions

 

[Lilbaz]

What if they do that and someone who is double vaxed infects the company and takes down the workforce

Bad luck. They made the effort to get vaccinated. Also much less likeley.

Should a drunk driver be punished the same as someone sober, driving safely who got into a crash?

 

[Grays_1890]

Bad luck. They made the effort to get vaccinated.

I'm struggling to understand the logic?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Isn't the proof now that the differential between contagiousness of the vaxxed and unvaxxed is negligible so its basically a vaccine to protect yourself? On that basis it's gotta be a personal choice thing? I'm double jabbed personally but if m6 35 year old neighbour decides not to I'm not sure it's a healthy society measure to treat him like he has done something wrong and place exclusions

Shh, too much sense in that for some...

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I'm not a huge fan of vaccine passports, but if they were mandated for a time limited period then maybe that's OK, but the scheme would need to be properly enforced to be effective - and cost of implementation for just a short period then potentially becomes an issue for impacted businesses.
But it's a whole different world for someone to lose their job over not having the vaccine (although it's already happening in care homes (but not hospitals)). That feels a step far too far for me. If that were the case, then the Government might as well go the whole hog and make the vaccine mandatory. Leaving such a choice down to employers creates too much disparity and is open to abuse.

 

[Lilbaz]

Isn't the proof now that the differential between contagiousness of the vaxxed and unvaxxed is negligible so its basically a vaccine to protect yourself? On that basis it's gotta be a personal choice thing? I'm double jabbed personally but if m6 35 year old neighbour decides not to I'm not sure it's a healthy society measure to treat him like he has done something wrong and place exclusions

No they're not.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...kely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

 

[glorygloryeze]

I draw my lines at covid. As it would have disrupted my business far more in the last 2 years.

As i said it would be up to the employer.

As @Grays_1890 said what if all a fully vaxxed employee caught covid-19 and spread it amongst your other vaxxed staff (as has been seen in places)?
As you know the vaccine does not stop spread, for some it minimises the symptoms but we know it doesn't stop people catching it bad enough to need to go to hospital and in fact die.
Similarly, many who are unvaxxed can catch it and have mild symptoms etc. So again, i don't get the full logic.

It is true, that it is up to the employer (many want to being in such rules but can't quite do it because of the vaccine doesn't stop people catching it or spreading it)

 

[Lilbaz]

As @Grays_1890 said what if all a fully vaxxed employee caught covid-19 and spread it amongst your other vaxxed staff (as has been seen in places)?
As you know the vaccine does not stop spread, for some it minimises the symptoms but we know it doesn't stop people catching it bad enough to need to go to hospital and in fact die.
Similarly, many who are unvaxxed can catch it and have mild symptoms etc. So again, i don't get the full logic.

It is true, that it is up to the employer (many want to being in such rules but can't quite do it because of the vaccine doesn't stop people catching it or spreading it)

As i said they did what they could to protect themselves, my employees and my business. If they didn't why should i employ them?

 

[glorygloryeze]

If it was true. Which it isn't.

It is true though. Several reports and studies have found that the viral load and infectivity when you compare vaxxed to unvaxxed is negligible. Even PHE said thaose who take the jabs would still need to practice social distancing, wear mask etc back a few months ago before these studies. Why would they advise that?