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Coronavirus

LutonSpurs said:
No I wouldn't as it's entirely relative. When mortality was even lower 100 or 1000 years ago you can draw analogies but it's absolutely irrelevant to the fact that we have serious excess deaths last year compared to a 5 year average. We know many of those lives could have been saved if we had locked down fully and had a zero Covid policy. Which is the opposite to what you were pushing. We now can argue, with data, that the economy would have been in a better place and less would have died if we had done the opposite to what you and Julie HB and others have pushed for a year.
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I disagree.

Firstly, context is important. It sounds like a lot of people dying but we were (mostly) all around in 2003 and, other than the appalling musical landscape, it was a good time to be alive. If we don't apply context to seemingly large numbers then we run the risk of constantly being in fear of something and trying to avoid it at any cost.

I also still don't believe we could ever have had a successful zero COVID policy in this country, nor should we ever hand over the amount to power required for one to a govt.
 
scaramanga said:
I disagree.

Firstly, context is important. It sounds like a lot of people dying but we were (mostly) all around in 2003 and, other than the appalling musical landscape, it was a good time to be alive. If we don't apply context to seemingly large numbers then we run the risk of constantly being in fear of something and trying to avoid it at any cost.

I also still don't believe we could ever have had a successful zero COVID policy in this country, nor should we ever hand over the amount to power required for one to a govt.
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We could have had a zero Covid policy if we had a competent govt. What we have now is the worst of everything bar an exceptional roll out program mostly based on a good gamble on the AZ vaccine.

You saying we couldn't achieve it is just you saying it. We never tried. Not even close.
 
johnola said:
Let me put it this way. Should my mum have her second jab boosting her protection against covid from 80% to 95%, or should she give that jab to my Dad, improving his chances from nil to 80%?

They got a lot of negative press for this, even Fauci in the US was given airtime here to cast it in a negative light.

Yet it is so absolutely blindingly obviously the correct thing to do I’m a bit surprised you are calling them out on this of all things.
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No - I think we’re at cross purposes here.

Absolutely - get those first doses out. Totally, get a many done as you can. That’s what the JCBI and SAGE support (even if it’s against the producer’s advice) and I’m all for it.

What I’m not for is the govt spinning what the numbers actually are, and then the likes of Radio 4 taking the headline number in their news bulletins with no mention that these were only first doses. It’s all conveniently a bit light on detail that just happens to show the govt in a positive light.
 
DTA said:
I didnt ask for a statement from the regulators. I asked from the drug companies themselves.

I even asked nicely and and twice ;)
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Go to google.com
That’s google.com

Plug your own figures into my scenario, see how that then grabs you.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
No - I think we’re at cross purposes here.

Absolutely - get those first doses out. Totally, get a many done as you can. That’s what the JCBI and SAGE support (even if it’s against the producer’s advice) and I’m all for it.

What I’m not for is the govt spinning what the numbers actually are, and then the likes of Radio 4 taking the headline number in their news bulletins with no mention that these were only first doses. It’s all conveniently a bit light on detail that just happens to show the govt in a positive light.
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I think we have to be fair. The strategy is to mass vaccinate with the first dose across a wide a spread as possibly and this will lead to less deaths and quicker herd immunity. Also the decision is taken by the MHRA which we should respect.

More importantly I have no issue with the single dose numbers being celebrated. Its clear for anyone who is literate with the data (as in, can read a graph) that it is first dose.
 
Robspur12 said:
For me the problem is that because the general infection control approach has been so shambolic, all the eggs have been put in the vaccination basket. They have to get this right as we cannot rely on other measures to protect the vulnerable. I understand why the JCVI are doing it but it is nonetheless a fairly big risk to do this without data on how vaccinated immunity changes in the interval between doses they are proposing or to evaluate the uptake differences when you lengthen the interval between doses.
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I think that applies everywhere though, if the vaccination doesn't work out long term then there's big problems. Even countries like OZ will face them, not on the same scale for now but in time their citizens will want to start going abroad etc and the same issues will be faced again.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Sorry but i look at that and think "how the fudge have we vaccinated 120K people less than last week"? (UK first dose daily)

That's not a improvement, we should be massively marking up.
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I know, what has happened, its not in the script of the last few days of gains, disappointing
 
Read that the reason why they are done is that they have almost ground to a halt in Scotland and particularly Wales

Wales' health minister has denied Covid-19 vaccines are being held back.

Vaughan Gething was reacting to First Minister Mark Drakeford's comments the supply had to last until February to prevent "vaccinators standing around with nothing to do".

In a later tweet, Mr Drakeford said "nobody is holding back vaccines", but the Conservative ex-Welsh secretary said his comments were "astonishing".

Mr Gething insists vaccines are being rolled out "as quickly as possible".

After Mr Drakeford's comments on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, the Welsh Government had said the reason for spacing out vaccine supply was to avoid wastage.

Asked about those comments, Mr Gething said: "We're rolling out the vaccination programme as quickly as possible.

"As the first minister's clarified tonight, we're not holding the vaccine back."
 
markysimmo said:
Read that the reason why they are done is that they have almost ground to a halt in Scotland and particularly Wales

Wales' health minister has denied Covid-19 vaccines are being held back.

Vaughan Gething was reacting to First Minister Mark Drakeford's comments the supply had to last until February to prevent "vaccinators standing around with nothing to do".

In a later tweet, Mr Drakeford said "nobody is holding back vaccines", but the Conservative ex-Welsh secretary said his comments were "astonishing".

Mr Gething insists vaccines are being rolled out "as quickly as possible".

After Mr Drakeford's comments on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, the Welsh Government had said the reason for spacing out vaccine supply was to avoid wastage.

Asked about those comments, Mr Gething said: "We're rolling out the vaccination programme as quickly as possible.

"As the first minister's clarified tonight, we're not holding the vaccine back."
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Don't think so, if you go on here (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations) and filter by nation then England is also down quite a bit, guessing supply is down.
 
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