ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Ocado stopped delivering.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that they've just locked their website because of over demand
How long do people think an isolation/lockdown will last? I'm not talking about the government advice here - more how long will the British public realistically put up with it before people just decide fudge it I'll take the risk and deal with it later. There's plenty of dont give a fudge style people in the UK - I'd say anything going on in to June would be stretching it.
Made even worse that there's no exit strategy anywhere in sight, as soon as you lift the restrictions it comes back - we'll probably see this in China soon.
I'll be interested to see what happens with Italy, it will be 2 weeksthis weekend when it should theoretically start going down.
Made even worse that there's no exit strategy anywhere in sight, as soon as you lift the restrictions it comes back - we'll probably see this in China soon.
I'll be interested to see what happens with Italy, it will be 2 weeksthis weekend when it should theoretically start going down.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
I would hope no longer than 3 weeks but feel it could be much much longer
If the kids don't go back to school until September is a crazy amount of time too, fudge knows how we would deal with that, especially if nothing is open to do stuff, kids clubs etc
milo
Jack L. Jones
The first sign of good weather will see everyone flock to the nearest open space and get tinkled
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
There will be limitations on travel that will cause a lock down in effect
Agreed - only thing to look forward to in winter is sun, booze and BBQs, stopping that will end badly.
Anyone know if these school closures extend to colleges too?
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Haven't seen this research so forgive me jumping on this, but that implies an overall mortality rate of somewhere in the region of 4.5% going on some quick fag packet calculations.
Point being, I thought most estimates were putting it in the region of 1%?
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
I only heard nurseries and school both public and private
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Not heard anything on colleges/uni's, so I'm assuming not at present.
Most universities are just about to break up for a month anyway (student wise, at least), which might explain them holding back. That's if they are holding back - I didn't watch the announcements today.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
People in the UK are being asked to improve their personal hygiene in an effort to limit and slow the spread of coronavirus. But how's the government going about it?
Don't touch your face.
It's something people are thought to do more than 20 times an hour on average, but the official advice is to desist so that coronavirus doesn't spread any faster.
It's not easy to give up unhygienic habits picked up over a lifetime, though.
So the government is using "Nudge theory", a branch of economics designed to get us to do the "right thing" by making it easier, more normal and more obvious.
The Behavioural Insights Team (BIT), a company part-owned by the Cabinet Office, is advising ministers on how best to do it. It's come up with some ideas to prevent face-touching, as featured on its blog.
How about asking friends, family or colleagues to shout "face" every time they see you're about to reach up for a scratch or rub?
Or folding your arms in a locked position, grabbing the biceps to avoid the hands slipping free and heading upwards?
Another suggestion is creating an alternative "habitual" action, such as drumming fingers on legs or playing with a substitute object, such a ball.
"Even if you're very concerned about coronavirus, it's very difficult to stop doing something like face-touching because it's such a habit," says Cynthia McVey, former head of psychology at Glasgow Caledonian University. "There have been reports of people who are worried enough to wear masks who have still removed them so they can rub their nose."
Nudge theory, already widely used by governments, aims to instil better habits - or change social "norms" - rather than focusing on explicit "top-down" advice.
If enough people do something, you feel a sense of oddness, of missing out, of guilt perhaps, if you don't do the same.
"It's more powerful than traditional methods of getting across certain advice," says Kelly Hunstone, chief executive of the Social Change UK agency and a former adviser on behavioural science to the government. "We've left the age of deference and need to communicate differently.
"In some instances we don't trust the experts but the person on the street to show us how to act. It's a bit like using Tripadvisor - you'd rather take the advice of Bob in Essex than a travel operator."
Since the coronavirus crisis began, the government has recommended singing Happy Birthday to yourself twice while washing your hands. It's easier to remember than counting the full 20 seconds this equates to.
We've also been advised to sneeze into our sleeves if there are no tissues around.
Both tips bear the signs of Nudge theory, which emphasises putting across a "clear message".
Nudge theory also assumes people don't always act in their own best interests, or those of society - for reasons such as laziness, selfishness and ignorance. Hence the need to ease the way towards doing what a government wants us to do.
It's an idea that has caught on at local and national level since the book Nudge, by US academics Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein, was published in 2008.
Some UK councils provide recycling bins that are larger than their normal waste bins, in an effort to get people recycle more.
Tax reminders are sent out saying the "majority" of people in an area have already paid, putting social pressure on recipients to do the same.
And there are now automatic donor cards and automatic enrolment work pensions - where people have to opt out, rather than in. These have been shown to increase take-up rates.
What can be done, though, to deal with the effects of coronavirus on society? The government is urging people not to stockpile toilet paper, pasta and other goods, while supermarkets are putting up notices asking people not to over-purchase and leave others without.
The logic is clear, but Ms Hunstone advocates a more Nudge-y, emotion-led approach.
"It would be more effective to show a picture of Doris Jones, 76, who can't get out easily to visit the supermarket, if you're trying to persuade people not to buy too many cans of baked beans or loo rolls," Ms Hunstone says.
She argues that pictures like this, seen recently on Facebook, could be placed in shops, inducing guilt in those tempted to stuff their trolleys.
"It's also important to use the ego when you're putting out this kind of message and people like to be seen doing what's right," Ms Hunstone adds.
People leaving enough provisions on shelves could photograph their trolleys or baskets and share them on social media, further marginalising those who do not, she says. So, in a way, "annoying" virtue-signallers could encourage the spread of virtuous behaviour in others.
The UK government has faced criticism for adopting a different approach to other countries towards coronavirus, focusing more so far on people following advice than creating a wider "lockdown".
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has signalled a change of approach this week, urging people to reduce social contact with others, but the measures are less severe than in many other European countries, necessitating simple advice.
Staff with the Behavioural Insights Team are honing and testing messages to create the greatest impact.
"Simplicity is key," says Ms Hunstone. It might get boring hearing the same thing again and again. But you have to hear messages like that nine times before people really understand them and they get through. Consistency is absolutely vital."
There have been criticisms that Nudge theory infantilises people, not crediting them with the ability to think for themselves and removing effective choice.
But it's very much in favour in Downing Street. Whether it can stop people touching their faces remains to be seen.
Don't touch your face.
It's something people are thought to do more than 20 times an hour on average, but the official advice is to desist so that coronavirus doesn't spread any faster.
It's not easy to give up unhygienic habits picked up over a lifetime, though.
So the government is using "Nudge theory", a branch of economics designed to get us to do the "right thing" by making it easier, more normal and more obvious.
The Behavioural Insights Team (BIT), a company part-owned by the Cabinet Office, is advising ministers on how best to do it. It's come up with some ideas to prevent face-touching, as featured on its blog.
How about asking friends, family or colleagues to shout "face" every time they see you're about to reach up for a scratch or rub?
Or folding your arms in a locked position, grabbing the biceps to avoid the hands slipping free and heading upwards?
Another suggestion is creating an alternative "habitual" action, such as drumming fingers on legs or playing with a substitute object, such a ball.
"Even if you're very concerned about coronavirus, it's very difficult to stop doing something like face-touching because it's such a habit," says Cynthia McVey, former head of psychology at Glasgow Caledonian University. "There have been reports of people who are worried enough to wear masks who have still removed them so they can rub their nose."
Nudge theory, already widely used by governments, aims to instil better habits - or change social "norms" - rather than focusing on explicit "top-down" advice.
If enough people do something, you feel a sense of oddness, of missing out, of guilt perhaps, if you don't do the same.
"It's more powerful than traditional methods of getting across certain advice," says Kelly Hunstone, chief executive of the Social Change UK agency and a former adviser on behavioural science to the government. "We've left the age of deference and need to communicate differently.
"In some instances we don't trust the experts but the person on the street to show us how to act. It's a bit like using Tripadvisor - you'd rather take the advice of Bob in Essex than a travel operator."
Since the coronavirus crisis began, the government has recommended singing Happy Birthday to yourself twice while washing your hands. It's easier to remember than counting the full 20 seconds this equates to.
We've also been advised to sneeze into our sleeves if there are no tissues around.
Both tips bear the signs of Nudge theory, which emphasises putting across a "clear message".
Nudge theory also assumes people don't always act in their own best interests, or those of society - for reasons such as laziness, selfishness and ignorance. Hence the need to ease the way towards doing what a government wants us to do.
It's an idea that has caught on at local and national level since the book Nudge, by US academics Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein, was published in 2008.
Some UK councils provide recycling bins that are larger than their normal waste bins, in an effort to get people recycle more.
Tax reminders are sent out saying the "majority" of people in an area have already paid, putting social pressure on recipients to do the same.
And there are now automatic donor cards and automatic enrolment work pensions - where people have to opt out, rather than in. These have been shown to increase take-up rates.
What can be done, though, to deal with the effects of coronavirus on society? The government is urging people not to stockpile toilet paper, pasta and other goods, while supermarkets are putting up notices asking people not to over-purchase and leave others without.
The logic is clear, but Ms Hunstone advocates a more Nudge-y, emotion-led approach.
"It would be more effective to show a picture of Doris Jones, 76, who can't get out easily to visit the supermarket, if you're trying to persuade people not to buy too many cans of baked beans or loo rolls," Ms Hunstone says.
She argues that pictures like this, seen recently on Facebook, could be placed in shops, inducing guilt in those tempted to stuff their trolleys.
"It's also important to use the ego when you're putting out this kind of message and people like to be seen doing what's right," Ms Hunstone adds.
People leaving enough provisions on shelves could photograph their trolleys or baskets and share them on social media, further marginalising those who do not, she says. So, in a way, "annoying" virtue-signallers could encourage the spread of virtuous behaviour in others.
The UK government has faced criticism for adopting a different approach to other countries towards coronavirus, focusing more so far on people following advice than creating a wider "lockdown".
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has signalled a change of approach this week, urging people to reduce social contact with others, but the measures are less severe than in many other European countries, necessitating simple advice.
Staff with the Behavioural Insights Team are honing and testing messages to create the greatest impact.
"Simplicity is key," says Ms Hunstone. It might get boring hearing the same thing again and again. But you have to hear messages like that nine times before people really understand them and they get through. Consistency is absolutely vital."
There have been criticisms that Nudge theory infantilises people, not crediting them with the ability to think for themselves and removing effective choice.
But it's very much in favour in Downing Street. Whether it can stop people touching their faces remains to be seen.
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Been saying that for a few days now. It's the most terrifying thought to have passed my mind since this all kicked off.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Dianne & Jezza leading the charge !!!
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
If we had Corbyn in charge all our doctors would be in Iran helping them out
Not Corbyns biggest Fan but what has BoJo done well in any part of this crisis?
Flights from China unchecked at the start of the outbreak.
Last week or so there were flight arriving from italy where the passengers were not checked in any way shape or form.
He was talking about heard Immunity without knowing enough about the virus to know if immunity is possible. Knowing that at least 100s of thousands would die.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Had a tear in my eye this afternoon. There is an elderly Jamaican gent who lives behind where we work. Everytime he walks past the office window he gives us a big toothless smile and a thumbs up. Bit of a drinker, he's well over 70. Last week I saw him at the bus stop and thought, you need to be isolating, and on Friday he was wheeled out his house into an ambulance. I didn't think I'd see him again.
He returned home this afternoon. This time walking, with the NHS guy carrying his few things. I was overjoyed to see him - this time we were giving him the thumbs up! Was a sign of hope. Not everyone elderly dies of Corona (not that I know he was taken out by Corona). Most who get the virus have very mild symptoms. Less severe than flu. But of course, there is that risk of more severe complications, pneumonia which is scary stuff.
He returned home this afternoon. This time walking, with the NHS guy carrying his few things. I was overjoyed to see him - this time we were giving him the thumbs up! Was a sign of hope. Not everyone elderly dies of Corona (not that I know he was taken out by Corona). Most who get the virus have very mild symptoms. Less severe than flu. But of course, there is that risk of more severe complications, pneumonia which is scary stuff.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Think they do.
Well he was listening to the wrong experts then. The WHO have made it clear what the procedure should be. China, Korea and Singapore have implemented strategies that work at least as a holding pattern until we find out more.
And when I say find out more, I dont mean as in have a viable Vaccine. As I am well aware that the world cant just wait 18 months locked away.
But the testing of available medicines suitability to treat this, is one area where buying time will save lives.
Some of his new mistakes are:
1. Under-reporting the cases in the uk.
2. Not testing those with symptoms unless they are serious enough to be hospitalized.
3. Because of number 2 Not tracking those that have had the virus and recovered, this will have grave implications moving forward.