Coronavirus

[Parklaner81]

It wasn't an NHS Trust chief - that was just the BBC being political.

That story was a classic - the NHS boss who could only get in touch with a multi national company by going via the BBC...

 

[Robspur12]

I'm sure there's plenty to legitimately go after our government for. My personal favourite is the lack of border restrictions implemented. But attacking them for providing additional context to some highly uncertain statistics really seems like scraping the barrel to me.

Agreed this was strange. Boris and his crew campaigned to leave partly to give back control over our borders. But then didn't exercise the control that was within their power when they needed to.

 

[Grays_1890]

I can't see why not. Immigration from India has been established a while now, so even the oldest of the swivel-eyed loons would have grown up with it being normal. I also think if you asked the opinion of those who don't particularly like immigration, they'd probably tell you that those from India are least troublesome in their eyes. Think about the stereotype of Indian immigrants (as you're putting yourself in the position of someone who relies on them to judge) - hard-working, studious and polite kids, tend to end up in professional positions, etc.

I think if there's to be a PM who isn't white British in their background, one of Indian descent is the most likely.

Yep I agree, if he was not fit for the structure he would not even have the role he has now. And love or loathe them they have had two female Prime Ministers and unfortunately my party has not so the lack of equality in parties is not something I can throw at the Tories. I especially can't when Corbyns Anti Antisemitism meant I could not vote for my own party for two General Elections

 

[glasgowspur]

It wasn't an NHS Trust chief - that was just the BBC being political.

Was it, I've just about tuned out to most of it now. It's a total mess, lots of opinions most based on brick.
Sick of all it tbh.
Factory is closed for holidays this week and I'm catching up on the garden, sick of people with nothing else to do stopping and telling me that this is a great chance to catch up with all the work needing done, you've got the whole summer.
No I fudging haven't, I'm not furloughed, back to work on Tuesday for me, thank fudge.

Getting cranky, don't know how people are surviving this tbh.

 

[Parklaner81]

Factory is closed for holidays this week and I'm catching up on the garden, sick of people with nothing else to do stopping and telling me that this is a great chance to catch up with all the work needing done, you've got the whole summer.
No I fudging haven't, I'm not furloughed, back to work on Tuesday for me, thank fudge.

Haha, snap. I got rather tinkled off by a friend's social media post last night prattling on about the benefits of all this, how we've all been able to slow down and reconnect with ourselves and others, yada yada...

I fudgein haven't, for one reason or another I've barely had 5 minutes since this all kicked off*...

*excluding time spent on glory-glory, of course

 

[Grays_1890]

Was it, I've just about tuned out to most of it now. It's a total mess, lots of opinions most based on brick.
Sick of all it tbh.
Factory is closed for holidays this week and I'm catching up on the garden, sick of people with nothing else to do stopping and telling me that this is a great chance to catch up with all the work needing done, you've got the whole summer.
No I fudging haven't, I'm not furloughed, back to work on Tuesday for me, thank fudge.

Getting cranky, don't know how people are surviving this tbh.

I have to day this week has seen me start to get narked off with being locked down, had a call today with work and two others said that within the last day they have had an overwhelming sense of "I've had enough", just spoken to another colleague and they said the same, maybe there is some kind of human nature part kicking in now.

I am really starting to question seriously the merits of a lockdown TBH, I know it’s controversial but we’ve become so adept at saving people’s lives from all the cancers and diseases and so now we are like afronted that people who are already in ill health are actually dying.... I know that sounds harsh, that’s not how I mean it and I know there are people behind the death statistics but death is a part of life and I think we are entering the realms of the long term effects of this the greater loss will be the consequence of the lockdown so then it does literally become a choice what is the greater good. People are obsessed now with the death toll of this but I think personally there is a bigger picture to all this that is going to be worse than that specific part of the whole thing.

Sweden are coming through this at the exact same trajectory as the rest of the world give of take and its unlikely their will be crater where their economy used to be which means life for them will have a decent quality to it once this is all over, are we going to be able to say the same?

So whilst everyone concentrates on the death toll league table and use that as the major barometer I would ask whats the point if society is in such a mess after that there is hardly a life for millions to go back to?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Far too wet. Doesn't nearly have the nuts for any serious job.

Appearance in the western world counts for a lot. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

Ed Milliband had the same issue. If you can't take to the person (lad or lass), it undermines every action, every word they deliver.

And lets not forget, in the main, they are just a leader. They can be charismatic, speak well and a bit of a showman, as long as they have a layer of talented people underneath them thats all that should matter.

And in that respect Bojo has a high chance of being let down by his team.

 

[glasgowspur]

Haha, snap. I got rather tinkled off by a friend's social media post last night prattling on about the benefits of all this, how we've all been able to slow down and reconnect with ourselves and others, yada yada...

I fudgein haven't, for one reason or another I've barely had 5 minutes since this all kicked off...

We had six weeks of absolute carnage at work, did three months turn over in three weeks.
Never missed a beat, orders out in a max of 48 hours, competition is quoting 3 weeks for part orders.
Although we could have worked through this holiday, our girls have worked their arses off and deserved the week off.
Glad to say the company has been paying them a bit extra every week.

 

[Mikey10]

Far too wet. Doesn't nearly have the nuts for any serious job.

Yeah, agreed. Which is a shame, as I think he has a good moral compass and the ability to think outside the box.

I agree Sunak is the only one who has impressed from the government during this crisis. But is the country ready for a PM of Indian origin? Scrap that are the Tory grass roots ready for their Leader to be of Indian origin?

I think Sunak has been excellent - and he has responded really quickly when he has needed to tweak things. I also have a bit of sympathy for Hanrooster. I think he has been hung out to dry a bit by Johnson, Gove and Raab; and I fear for him, in that I think he will end up carrying the can at any inquiry. I do think he is trying to do the right things.

For me, he's been hampered by a lack of leadership above him, and possibly - like Rory Stewart - he's a bit wet.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Was interested to see was was going on in Belgium as they have the highest % deaths per population. And even their chap goes on about political motivation and public health science when compiling figures.

Any worthwhile conversation needs the data to be cleaned up so true comparisons can be made.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52491210

Excess mortality increases appear to be the fairest way of comparing countries’ efforts currently and by that measure we’re just ahead of Belgium by 1%...

 

[Parklaner81]

I have to day this week has seen me start to get narked off with being locked down, had a call today with work and two others said that within the last day they have had an overwhelming sense of "I've had enough", just spoken to another colleague and they said the same, maybe there is some kind of human nature part kicking in now.

I think we're at the point now where this sort of thing is going to dictate government policy to a large degree. I think many of us would agree the lockdown is starting to unravel under it's own weight at this point. It might be better for the government to release it, at least partially, rather than appear to have lost control.

If the latter happens, it's going to be far harder to re-institute lockdown at a later date when it may become necessary to do so.

 

[AuroRaman]

It's a prerequisite.

I can't respect a man who doesn't wear a suit well.

Edit - I'm not the only admirer of his dress:
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/fashion/article/rishi-sunak-style

Corona-chic

 

[glasgowspur]

I have to day this week has seen me start to get narked off with being locked down, had a call today with work and two others said that within the last day they have had an overwhelming sense of "I've had enough", just spoken to another colleague and they said the same, maybe there is some kind of human nature part kicking in now.

I am really starting to question seriously the merits of a lockdown TBH, I know it’s controversial but we’ve become so adept at saving people’s lives from all the cancers and diseases and so now we are like afronted that people who are already in ill health are actually dying.... I know that sounds harsh, that’s not how I mean it and I know there are people behind the death statistics but death is a part of life and I think we are entering the realms of the long term effects of this the greater loss will be the consequence of the lockdown so then it does literally become a choice what is the greater good. People are obsessed now with the death toll of this but I think personally there is a bigger picture to all this that is going to be worse than that specific part of the whole thing.

I've long held the opinion we are now too focused on quantity of life and not quality.
Sounds harsh I know, but I watched my sister battle cancer for six years and the doctors keep her alive for another two in basically hell, before she said she had had enough and refuse treatment.
She passed away in a couple of weeks later, only months before her 50th birthday.
If she had been a pet we wouldn't have put her through that hell.
Not that I'm advocating assisted suicide, and of course everyone is different as is their circumstances, but there is a huge and growing taboo about end of life/death.

 

[scaramanga]

Appearance in the western world counts for a lot. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

Ed Milliband had the same issue. If you can't take to the person (lad or lass), it undermines every action, every word they deliver.

And lets not forget, in the main, they are just a leader. They can be charismatic, speak well and a bit of a showman, as long as they have a layer of talented people underneath them thats all that should matter.

And in that respect Bojo has a high chance of being let down by his team.

It's not just for show.

People like Stewart do not come out of negotiations with what they want. They do not make those who work for them go the extra mile they don't think is in them when it's really needed. He'll just float through life, writing books and the odd Graun article.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeah, agreed. Which is a shame, as I think he has a good moral compass and the ability to think outside the box.



I think Sunak has been excellent - and he has responded really quickly when he has needed to tweak things. I also have a bit of sympathy for Hanrooster. I think he has been hung out to dry a bit by Johnson, Gove and Raab; and I fear for him, in that I think he will end up carrying the can at any inquiry. I do think he is trying to do the right things.

For me, he's been hampered by a lack of leadership above him, and possibly - like Rory Stewart - he's a bit wet.

Been very impressed with sunak, so much so that I think he's first actual leader I could vote for since Smith. Jumping the gun there on leader, but I think it's very likely.
Not been impressed with Hanrooster at all.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think Sunak has been excellent - and he has responded really quickly when he has needed to tweak things. I also have a bit of sympathy for Hanrooster. I think he has been hung out to dry a bit by Johnson, Gove and Raab; and I fear for him, in that I think he will end up carrying the can at any inquiry. I do think he is trying to do the right things.

I do like Sunak BUT i would say that his interventions haven't had to rely on logistic unravelling and heavy lifting. And not least relying on others.

Lets face it, he can sit in a room and say lets just throw a load of money at it, the magic money tree is shaken, and he can come out and announce it to the country.

'In these unprecedented times' is just a green light for carte blanche on gross national debt, and fiscal financial policy.....not that they really had any other choice. It's just some 000's being added to the lot we still owed from the last blow up.

 

[Rorschach]

In what way could refusing to turn up to work be seen as anything other than a sackable offence?

The devil is in the detail I believe. Being sacked versus 'voluntary quitting' and how it affects the payments you might get. If you don't go to work then yes your employer can justifiably fire you. However in these Corona times if you are not providing a safe workplace then it gets messy. In fact, proving the workplace is safe or not is also a can of worms and potentially a drawn-out legal battle. There are workers protections that may or may not apply depending on a myriad of factors, and these seem to differ from state to state. On top of that, there are new protections introduced within the stimulus bills and some state governors have issues EOs to prohibit firing to add to the complication.

Without getting bogged down too much in the details, the point is that if a worker is classed as quitting voluntarily it is different than being sacked, and it may affect any payments they receive afterward as far as I can tell. The overarching point is that Trump will force governors to restart sectors of the economy to aid his reelection even when the working conditions are conducive to spreading the virus. The meatpacking industry is a good example.

 

[scaramanga]

I do like Sunak BUT i would say that his interventions haven't had to rely on logistic unravelling and heavy lifting. And not least relying on others.

Lets face it, he can sit in a room and say lets just throw a load of money at it, the magic money tree is shaken, and he can come out and announce it to the country.

'In these unprecedented times' is just a green light for carte blanche on gross national debt, and fiscal financial policy.....not that they really had any other choice. It's just some 000's being added to the lot we still owed from the last blow up.

I assume he was ultimately responsible for the CJRS project.

Getting something like that set up so well, so quickly and reliably in such a short space of time is no mean feat for the private sector. To do that with civil servants and govt busybodies is nothing short of a miracle.

 

[Grays_1890]

I've long held the opinion we are now too focused on quantity of life and not quality.
Sounds harsh I know, but I watched my sister battle cancer for six years and the doctors keep her alive for another two in basically hell, before she said she had had enough and refuse treatment.
She passed away in a couple of weeks later, only months before her 50th birthday.
If she had been a pet we wouldn't have put her through that hell.
Not that I'm advocating assisted suicide, and of course everyone is different as is their circumstances, but there is a huge and growing taboo about end of life/death.

Sorry to hear about you sister mate.

I agree and like I said originally its not an easy conversation to have and I am sure people will focus in and say "so you are happy for people to die" which is not the case I just fear that the quality of life left when this ends will be unrecognisable from what we had before.

As soon as the lockdown is lifted and the Furlough scheme has gone how many of the 6.3 million people will be taken back to their firms and how many will just be made redundant? I suspect there will be huge redundancies which the furlough scheme masks and is not within the countries mindset yet.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I can't see why not. Immigration from India has been established a while now, so even the oldest of the swivel-eyed loons would have grown up with it being normal. I also think if you asked the opinion of those who don't particularly like immigration, they'd probably tell you that those from India are least troublesome in their eyes. Think about the stereotype of Indian immigrants (as you're putting yourself in the position of someone who relies on them to judge) - hard-working, studious and polite kids, tend to end up in professional positions, etc.

I think if there's to be a PM who isn't white British in their background, one of Indian descent is the most likely.

This is true.
My family is partly of Indian origin and growing up in the North, around immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh, I saw that attitude towards immigrants played out.
As well as, sadly, different groups living up to their stereotype.