Coronavirus

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

There it is fella.

I'm not advocating one method over another, just that all methods at this stage have avenues to be successful. Logical thinking is all it takes. You are not even applying that to the method you are commending. And that's not me being negative about that method just logic dictates there is issues with that route as well given what we know and the tools we have available. (Pretty much none ATM)

Forward thinking is the only thinking that matters here.

Fair enough, you got me there. I stand by my belief that the correct approach would have been to act early and decisively.

In terms of a way forward you are correct in saying no one has the answer yet.

 

[Legohamster]

Partially. I think our troubles stem from failing to act early and decisively, but at least we did act eventually. Had we done nothing as has been suggested on here the results could have been catastrophic.

My comments about population density and international trade were around the suppositions on here that the Swedish approach would have a similar outcome in the U.K. I don't agre for the reasons started.

I don’t think there’s enough data to say if we did nothing it would have been catastrophic.

The date of first cases is getting earlier and earlier which means more people are likely to have had it.

If it was 10 million people that have had it it’s not a disaster - so far this month there has only been 5 k cancer diagnoses compared to the April average of 30 k

That’s before you add on the economy and the black hole we now face.

 

[Kandi1977]

87% of Sweden's population lives in urban areas Vs 83% of the UK.

Hahaha! Have you been in Norway or Sweden and seen what is considered "urban areas"?
This is from Norway, but it's very typical for what is included in the term 'urban areas' for Sweden as well.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

I don’t think there’s enough data to say if we did nothing it would have been catastrophic.

The date of first cases is getting earlier and earlier which means more people are likely to have had it.

If it was 10 million people that have had it it’s not a disaster - so far this month there has only been 5 k cancer diagnoses compared to the April average of 30 k

That’s before you add on the economy and the black hole we now face.

Not denying it but how are they identifying earlier and earlier cases? Is it through testing and are the tests reliable?

apparently covid 19 has been around since before Christmas according to some stories

 

[Legohamster]

Not denying it but how are they identifying earlier and earlier cases? Is it through testing and are the tests reliable?

apparently covid 19 has been around since before Christmas according to some stories

Testing - we have absolutely no idea how many have had it World wide - which is the key

There has been 200k deaths (roughly) if that death rate is 0.19 percent from people that have had it and it was in the population 2 months before we thought it - it’s nowhere near as bad as we thought and the shut down wasn’t needed.

The FT today is reporting that domestic abuse cases/paedophilic images searches/mental health issues are up massively as well as the for mentioned cancer cases.

Have we just traded off one set of deaths for another?

We are coming close to a cross roads, people will start kicking off whilst they sit at home losing businesses/Jobs/houses

Why do you think people have been flocking to work in supermarkets - that’s was after a week.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Testing - we have absolutely no idea how many have had it World wide - which is the key

There has been 200k deaths (roughly) if that death rate is 0.19 percent from people that have had it and it was in the population 2 months before we thought it - it’s nowhere near as bad as we thought and the shut down wasn’t needed.

The FT today is reporting that domestic abuse cases/paedophilic images searches/mental health issues are up massively as well as the for mentioned cancer cases.

Have we just traded off one set of deaths for another?

We are coming close to a cross roads, people will start kicking off whilst they sit at home losing businesses/Jobs/houses

Why do you think people have been flocking to work in supermarkets - that’s was after a week.

That is why testing is so vital. If you can track and contain as Korea did, then you can open the economy while maintaining some control over the spread of the virus.

While I agree the mortality rate is probably pretty low, it is obviously still a mass killer. The way it spreads and the way it can take out healthy people is undeniable. So no action would result in more deaths, and a health aero e that can not cope.

Unfortunately the UK is late to the testing party. Various government advisory figures said testing wasn’t important and I don’t think they thought it was priority. Until now.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Grays_1890]

I've no problem with debate, just think it sad when people try and twist your words to fit their own agenda

Yeh me too like when I was accused of being a racist so I try not to do it.

I wasn’t twisting your words I highlighted a point that was not as positive, there is a difference

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

Yeh me too like when I was accused of being a racist so I try not to do it.

I wasn’t twisting your words I highlighted a point that was not as positive, there is a difference

to be honest I would say that this is clearly twisting my words!

That I find it incredible when people come on here wonderlusting about other countries to beat us with a stick without stating the full picture which doesn’t pain them in such a great light.

I’ve got no issue with the U.K. bashing but if you are going to post things people are also entitled to come back with points of view

Where have I been U.K. Bashing? There's a world of difference between criticising the response to covid 19 and U.K. Bashing whatever that is?

 

[Grays_1890]

to be honest I would say that this is clearly twisting my words!



Where have I been U.K. Bashing? There's a world of difference between criticising the response to covid 19 and U.K. Bashing whatever that is?

It’s not twisting would be taking your words and trying to imply you were making another point, you wasn’t. I just highlighted that Singapore are not a full spotlight of greatness.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

Interesting comparison between Sweden and the Czech Republic.

Czech Republic has a similar population Size to Sweden and is therefore a better comparison, than comparing Sweden to the U.K.

Czech Republic lockdown started mid march and as of Friday they recorded 213 covid deaths, while Sweden in the same timeframe has had more than 2,000 deaths!

 

[Grays_1890]

Interesting comparison between Sweden and the Czech Republic.

Czech Republic has a similar population Size to Sweden and is therefore a better comparison, than comparing Sweden to the U.K.

Czech Republic lockdown started mid march and as of Friday they recorded 213 covid deaths, while Sweden in the same timeframe has had more than 2,000 deaths!

Whilst their economic confidence dropped by a record amount in April since records began.

That’s the trade off and I’m interested to see how they fair now they are reopening borders.

Goes back to the big picture thinking, are Sweden getting the worse out the way early and are others going for the slow death approach. Unless Czech stay in lock down they will get this again and it will kill the same demographic as it has globally, the old and underlining conditions (91% of cases).

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

It’s not twisting would be taking your words and trying to imply you were making another point, you wasn’t. I just highlighted that Singapore are not a full spotlight of greatness.

Yeah, you accused me of U.K. Bashing, where did I do that? Surely that is a textbook example of taking my words and trying to imply that I was making another point.

With regards the Singapore comment you selectively omitted part of m post to make it look like I was ignoring your comments about the treatment of migrant workers

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

Whilst their economic confidence dropped by a record amount in April since records began.

That’s the trade off and I’m interested to see how they fair now they are reopening borders.

Agree with that but think one of the key objectives of lockdown (other than to manage the curve) is to buy time to put suitable measures in place to minimize the impact of subsequent waves of infections.

Goes back to the big picture thinking, are Sweden getting the worse out the way early and are others going for the slow death approach. Unless Czech stay in lock down they will get this again and it will kill the same demographic as it has globally, the old and underlining conditions (91% of cases).

Not if they have put suitable measures in place to mitigate the impact of subsequent waves of infections e.g isolation, testing and track and trace.

 

[Grays_1890]

Yeah, you accused me of U.K. Bashing, where did I do that? Surely that is a textbook example of taking my words and trying to imply that I was making another point.

With regards the Singapore comment you selectively omitted part of m post to make it look like I was ignoring your comments about the treatment of migrant workers

No you are twisting my words because that wasn’t the original comment you took exception too hahaha

I didn’t mean that about Singapore I was nearly emphasising the fact that all these so called standard setters set equally poor standards in other ways.

I feel that a lot of the tone on here is to bash the U.K. and maybe I confused that in your post so apologise for that, but I maintain it wasn’t me twisting your words, that was an honest mistake.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not if they have put suitable measures in place to mitigate the impact of subsequent waves of infections e.g isolation, testing and track and trace.

Issue with testing is I feel it is equally a delay tactic as many positives cases don’t show in the first 7 days so Joe can go and infect someone and in 10 stages have infected 10,000 which will probably take 2 weeks to a month to come to light.

So I agree it’s a good preventative I don’t think it’s going to solve all issues.

I honestly think a lot of these places are killing themselves into a false sense of security and when lifted they will be hit hard like others are now, that’s the nature of indiscriminate virus’s

 

[Legohamster]

Issue with testing is I feel it is equally a delay tactic as many positives cases don’t show in the first 7 days so Joe can go and infect someone and in 10 stages have infected 10,000 which will probably take 2 weeks to a month to come to light.

So I agree it’s a good preventative I don’t think it’s going to solve all issues.

I honestly think a lot of these places are killing themselves into a false sense of security and when lifted they will be hit hard like others are now, that’s the nature of indiscriminate virus’s

I’m not disagreeing with you - but if stuff doesn’t open we are all pretty done.

It will be a slow knock on affect - but every industry will be gone

Take travel at the top level.


Airlines/hotels going bust will knock on to
Tour operators
Insurance companies
Banks.

That’s not even mentioning employees of all.

The best option is looking like open up and isolate the most at risk.

 

[Mikey10]

I feel that a lot of the tone on here is to bash the U.K. and maybe I confused that in your post so apologise for that, but I maintain it wasn’t me twisting your words, that was an honest mistake.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread ‘UK bashing’. I have seen some people questioning the government’s approach. Given that it looks increasingly like we are sitting on probably 40,000+ deaths, and the highest mortality rate in the world from this virus , I’d say it’s valid to ask why that might be.

It also stops the thread reading like a right-wing echo chamber, which I’m sure is a good thing.

 

[Grays_1890]

I’m not disagreeing with you - but if stuff doesn’t open we are all pretty done.

It will be a slow knock on affect - but every industry will be gone

Take travel at the top level.


Airlines/hotels going bust will knock on to
Tour operators
Insurance companies
Banks.

That’s not even mentioning employees of all.

The best option is looking like open up and isolate the most at risk.

No I completely agree that’s my point, lockdown comes with it’s own pains long term. That’s why I advocate Sweden’s method

 

[Grays_1890]

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread ‘UK bashing’. I have seen some people questioning the government’s approach. Given that it looks increasingly like we are sitting on probably 40,000+ deaths, and the highest mortality rate in the world from this virus , I’d say it’s valid to ask why that might be.

It also stops the thread reading like a right-wing echo chamber, which I’m sure is a good thing.

Potato potaato

There has been plenty of U.K. bashing which is fine on its own merit, I will happily bash them now for short comings but not at the expense of using bad examples.

Last week someone suggested heading for a recession should have been used to hit the government with and maybe right to question but not at the then example of Germany who were in a recession before this mess.

I just use people high level of expectations and level of criticism back on their examples, that’s not right wing, might be annoying but it’s not right wing to pick holes in examples.

That’s always been the tone of my messages I believe or at least what I’ve tried to do.

For example I don’t wanna hear how well China have dealt with this virus when they have lied constantly about the numbers and more than likely proven to have delayed reaction, I don’t think that’s hugely unreasonable is it?

I agree we should have reacted quicker and provided Better PPE I just don’t see the value in revisiting that same point every day either, that’s the opposite of discussions and just daily point scoring.

 

[scaramanga]

I don’t think there’s enough data to say if we did nothing it would have been catastrophic.

The date of first cases is getting earlier and earlier which means more people are likely to have had it.

If it was 10 million people that have had it it’s not a disaster - so far this month there has only been 5 k cancer diagnoses compared to the April average of 30 k

That’s before you add on the economy and the black hole we now face.

The predictions were that we'd see an exponential increase without action. It looks to me as if they were massively over valuing the early part of the data set and projecting a different shape curve rather than a different scale.