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Coronavirus

Robbo said:
. Having an incompetent baboon as the leder of the country doesn't help, obviously.
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Fortunately Sanders lost the primary so they've got at least a 50% chance of avoiding that for the next 4 years.

Robbo said:
. Having an incompetent baboon as the leder of the country doesn't help, obviously.
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I don't know the details of their constitution, but does it allow one or more states to actually leave the union? I believe the states already have a lot of autonomy, so in theory it could be done, but you'd have to factor in internal differences too of course. And drawing up new maps would obviously be a nightmare.[/QUOTE]
This was covered in an episode of the Opening Arguments podcast, and the simple answer is no. From memory, the answer was that there's no realistic vehicle by which it could be achieved, no matter how much support.

If it were possible, New Hampshire would have done so by now.
 
scaramanga said:
It will be interesting to see that graph for countries without totalitarian rule once the fatigue sets in and their ability to continue just following the rules diminishes.

I suspect at that point we'll see the UK/Sweden theory of a graph that trends back upwards happening.
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It will be interesting to see what happens in Japan. Tokyo is massive and the country has one of the oldest populations in the world.
 
milo said:
I think that it is a mistake to put it down to one thing. It does suggest that there are more factors than just how populous a city is though.
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That's true, but their other measures don't work unless you can track those who have been exposed.

That's a destruction of civil liberties that we could not and should not accept.
 
milo said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1249821828891250688
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Thanks for this. What's important for non data people here is that he is not presenting a scientific or medical opinion. He is presenting the data and giving some insight based on it. Now science may say that London has a higher rate of infection due to dense population, but he is presenting information saying that is not the trend across comparable cities.

Also he is a fantastic person to follow on twitter.
 
scaramanga said:
That's true, but their other measures don't work unless you can track those who have been exposed.

That's a destruction of civil liberties that we could not and should not accept.
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People who put the lives of others at risk deserve the same civil liberties as those who do not?

If we agree there are enough of those m*rons in the non-totalitarian countries I would suggest we have very little option other than an Orwellian tracing system.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
Thanks for this. What's important for non data people here is that he is not presenting a scientific or medical opinion. He is presenting the data and giving some insight based on it. Now science may say that London has a higher rate of infection due to dense population, but he is presenting information saying that is not the trend across comparable cities.

Also he is a fantastic person to follow on twitter.
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The only problem is different ways of collecting data means it is far less objective than it appears.

Belarus has almost no virus at all. People in The Gambia appear completely immune etc


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
LutonSpurs said:
People who put the lives of others at risk deserve the same civil liberties as those who do not?

If we agree there are enough of those m*rons in the non-totalitarian countries I would suggest we have very little option other than an Orwellian tracing system.
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What are your thoughts on the government's actions and how far they should go with regard to terrorism? Would you accept a stop all brown people travelling on public transport law?

I may have concentrated my posts on this subject around the economy, but this would be a far bigger loss to society. Slippery slope arguments rarely hold much weight, but with government intrusion they do. They'll always come up with what seems to be a genuine and valid reason; surveillance cameras for terrorism, ID cards for illegal immigration, a national web proxy for keeping porn away from kids, etc.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Wearing face masks may well slow the spread too.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I believe they do. Earlier in this thread I mentioned our experience in CZ where people are sharing instructions online for making for making surgical style masks and making their own. It's a very simple procedure that probably does some good but costs nothing if it doesn't.
 
LutonSpurs said:
This is based on what is reported by each country, hence it is objective to that caveat.
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Even countries that are ‘open’ and not manipulating data (China) don’t have a consistent way of recording a covid fatality. Some only record a person who was tested and diagnosed before passing away. Others put cause of death as another condition (how do you decide if it was a chronic condition or the virus that did the killing?), we didn’t count fatalities at home or in care homes initially etc etc

That’s not to say the data isn’t worth trying to track, but it is far less objective than many presume.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
scaramanga said:
What are your thoughts on the government's actions and how far they should go with regard to terrorism? Would you accept a stop all brown people travelling on public transport law?

I may have concentrated my posts on this subject around the economy, but this would be a far bigger loss to society. Slippery slope arguments rarely hold much weight, but with government intrusion they do. They'll always come up with what seems to be a genuine and valid reason; surveillance cameras for terrorism, ID cards for illegal immigration, a national web proxy for keeping porn away from kids, etc.
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If the security services were profiling as broadly as just brown people on transport then I would say they need to be better at their jobs considering the money and resources they have. But the scale of profiling is less important, it is whether there is any or not right?

So if the profile was all people who may have listened to a certain firebrand speaker on youtube or all people who attended a certain mosque sermon - then personally I would accept this in a heightened time of risk. Saving lives is critical. Where I worry is when these powers are abused but none of us can deny the necessity of profiling of some kind.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Even countries that are ‘open’ and not manipulating data (China) don’t have a consistent way of recording a covid fatality. Some only record a person who was tested and diagnosed before passing away. Others put cause of death as another condition (how do you decide if it was a chronic condition or the virus that did the killing?), we didn’t count fatalities at home or in care homes initially etc etc

That’s not to say the data isn’t worth trying to track, but it is far less objective than many presume.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I absolutely agree here, we can only work with that we are being fed.
 
Rorschach said:
. That was not my intent, but to then have you tell me the history of my own country is laughably ironic.
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Sounding like a macaronic neanderthal harping on in a nationalistic way there. I probably actually do know more about the history of Ireland as i enjoy history but that aside we English have to put up with people telling us our history and business all the time and even questioning this means your a racist neanderthal.

You failed go hang your head in shame. But do make sure that when you pop over to the UK next you use the UK and Ireland line at the airport, you know that extra benefit that the Irish demanded when they wanted independence.

I suggest you use the lockdown to read up on Irish history and you cant question this comment or your nationalistic.
 
LutonSpurs said:
If the security services were profiling as broadly as just brown people on transport then I would say they need to be better at their jobs considering the money and resources they have. But the scale of profiling is less important, it is whether there is any or not right?

So if the profile was all people who may have listened to a certain firebrand speaker on youtube or all people who attended a certain mosque sermon - then personally I would accept this in a heightened time of risk. Saving lives is critical. Where I worry is when these powers are abused but none of us can deny the necessity of profiling of some kind.
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They will always be abused. They always have been.

What's even more worrying is the way that temporary emergency powers just become a part of the background after a while - it's this that makes me unwilling to accept any govt intrusion as I know it will just become the norm within months.
 
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