Contingency planning : If Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[billyiddo]

Conte wasn't sacked he said he chose to leave

 

[veryoldspur]

5 points in 8 games...

There are people on this forum who believe that is acceptable and will continue to back this hopeless manager

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

There are people on this forum who believe that is acceptable and will continue to back this hopeless manager

There are people on here who think we should have Nuno, Mourinho, Conte and anyone else who fails to meet their delusion. Our current manager is struggling to convince many and he'll probably get the sack, I would like to see a list nominating the managers who are getable, will deliver their desire (a specific goal please), the timescale in which it is to be achieved.
I haven't a clue who could do the job, I would like us to play entertaining football rather than a pragmatic game as I've always believed it's a game to enjoy not endure and although winning is great it's not the end of the world to me if we play well and lose. We are in a barren spell and hope players returning from injury will improve our plight. I dont think sacking our manager now will make a lot of difference as we will still be short of our first choice defenders and confidence.

 

[thfcsteff]

Ange isn't the unluckiest manager, he's the luckiest because he still has his job. Just about every pundit realises our injuries are partly down to the way we play and his training methods. Ange's record is far worse than Jose and Conte, but you continue to back him. I can only think you believe him when he keeps telling us how good he is. Ange is like one of those toy robots, it keeps walking into the wall, the wall won't move, but it keeps doing it. Managers at the top level need to be pragmatic and flexible, Ange is stubborn and arrogant. Apart from being a poor manager, I find him a thoroughly vile person

Do you know him? What do you base such a vehement opinion on? Who else in public life do you consider 'vile' people?

p.s. Mourinho and Conte both based everything around maximising Kane and Son. You do realize that, right? They had 25-30 goals a season guaranteed from their main striker, 45 or so between the pair. Postecoglu hasn't once said he thinks he's 'good' he simply doesn't say what you want to hear.

 

[glasgowspur]

There are people on here who think we should have Nuno, Mourinho, Conte and anyone else who fails to meet their delusion. Our current manager is struggling to convince many and he'll probably get the sack, I would like to see a list nominating the managers who are getable, will deliver their desire (a specific goal please), the timescale in which it is to be achieved.
I haven't a clue who could do the job, I would like us to play entertaining football rather than a pragmatic game as I've always believed it's a game to enjoy not endure and although winning is great it's not the end of the world to me if we play well and lose. We are in a barren spell and hope players returning from injury will improve our plight. I dont think sacking our manager now will make a lot of difference as we will still be short of our first choice defenders and confidence.

I can tell you here and now what some of our supporters want, do just well enough to have a tinkle up now and again but not so well that they can't shout, "sack the manager" , "so so is crap, sell him" and "levy out".
Misey loves company and it's not got far to look for it in our support.

 

[thfcsteff]

What are you basing the two bolded assertions on?

You think he was totally fine with the mentality of the club from board all the way down and then losing a friend / member of staff suddenly broke him? I think you're wanting to add a bit of colour to the situation, filling in the blanks with your own details.

Who doesn’t believe he wanted out? He saw the ceiling. He belongs at clubs that don't consider it a miracle to finish 4th. Flagrant misuse of miracle but we'll never agree. Leicester winning the PL was a footballing miracle. Us qualifying in a fancy pants competition to get us some more money to spaff on transfers doesn't scream define intervention to me.

Briefly (and I went into this at the time)...Ventrone was Conte's 'calm' consigliari figure and a great communicator with the players. It was increasingly clear to me that the person who could calm Conte when he got fizzy was Ventrone. That he would consult with him. That Ventrone would also talk to the players. Three things happened which derailed Conte IMO. One was Ventrone's death, which I said at the time would throw him and it did. Secondly was the winter World Cup. Thirdly was his own illness. I think his tightrope walk personality hit an inflection point with those factors creating a 'crash' so-to-speak. Thus things got weird. Thus he wanted out.

You talk about 'the ceiling', please!!!! He KNEW the ceiling when he turned us down pre-Nuno. He apparently found the ceiling growing a bit taller when Levy added some womnga onto his proposed wages. MY hope on his appt was that he had told Levy what he wanted and that if he did not get it, he would quit/walk. Instead, he ended up never quite getting what he wanted AND he stuck around. Another to take Daniel -and us and our club- for a fat ride. clown shoe.

BTW, I had the opportunity to discuss Conte's time with a few very well-placed people last year. My assertions were largely correct (the 'ceiling' stuff I have written above is my personal opinion). I can assure you that by the time it came to his explosion at Soton, he was nobody's fave guy.

I don't often say 'I am right' because invariably, most things discussed are opinions with dashes of fact involved. On this one, I verified my initial 'take' at the time with people who would know. So no, not adding any color I can't stand behind.

I don't disagree that in the traditional sense (virgin births, divine interventions, etc) getting 4th was not exactly a 'miracle' but in context, given where the club were, it most certainly counts as one. Nothing like the TRUE miracles Mauricio Pochettino created for several years at our club, but alas, I fear we will disagree on that too...

 

[glasgowspur]

Briefly (and I went into this at the time)...Ventrone was Conte's 'calm' consigliari figure and a great communicator with the players. It was increasingly clear to me that the person who could calm Conte when he got fizzy was Ventrone. That he would consult with him. That Ventrone would also talk to the players. Three things happened which derailed Conte IMO. One was Ventrone's death, which I said at the time would throw him and it did. Secondly was the winter World Cup. Thirdly was his own illness. I think his tightrope walk personality hit an inflection point with those factors creating a 'crash' so-to-speak. Thus things got weird. Thus he wanted out.

You talk about 'the ceiling', please!!!! He KNEW the ceiling when he turned us down pre-Nuno. He apparently found the ceiling growing a bit taller when Levy added some womnga onto his proposed wages. MY hope on his appt was that he had told Levy what he wanted and that if he did not get it, he would quit/walk. Instead, he ended up never quite getting what he wanted AND he stuck around. Another to take Daniel -and us and our club- for a fat ride. clown shoe.

BTW, I had the opportunity to discuss Conte's time with a few very well-placed people last year. My assertions were largely correct (the 'ceiling' stuff I have written above is my personal opinion). I can assure you that by the time it came to his explosion at Soton, he was nobody's fave guy.

I don't often say 'I am right' because invariably, most things discussed are opinions with dashes of fact involved. On this one, I verified my initial 'take' at the time with people who would know. So no, not adding any color I can't stand behind.

I don't disagree that in the traditional sense (virgin births, divine interventions, etc) getting 4th was not exactly a 'miracle' but in context, given where the club were, it most certainly counts as one. Nothing like the TRUE miracles Mauricio Pochettino created for several years at our club, but alas, I fear we will disagree on that too...

I only wanted conte because when it went wrong, and was always going to, we had a very good chance of the big problems within the club being highlighted and that the resulting fall out could lead to a proper actual taking stock and rebuild.
I don't think it worked out quite like that, but I do feel the first steps have been taken.

 

[Baleforce]

There are people on here who think we should have Nuno, Mourinho, Conte and anyone else who fails to meet their delusion. Our current manager is struggling to convince many and he'll probably get the sack, I would like to see a list nominating the managers who are getable, will deliver their desire (a specific goal please), the timescale in which it is to be achieved.
I haven't a clue who could do the job, I would like us to play entertaining football rather than a pragmatic game as I've always believed it's a game to enjoy not endure and although winning is great it's not the end of the world to me if we play well and lose. We are in a barren spell and hope players returning from injury will improve our plight. I dont think sacking our manager now will make a lot of difference as we will still be short of our first choice defenders and confidence.

I want someone who does the basics, every game, maximises the likelihood of winning, and gets us back in the CL.

I don’t need to be entertained, I only care about results, I want it to get boring, oh Spurs won easy again and kept a clean sheet, good.

I want it so stress free there is no point in me even watching the games.

I just want to be satisfied with the numbers.

 

[thfcsteff]

I only wanted conte because when it went wrong, and was always going to, we had a very good chance of the big problems within the club being highlighted and that the resulting fall out could lead to a proper actual taking stock and rebuild.
I don't think it worked out quite like that, but I do feel the first steps have been taken.

Exactly. That was my hope. Instead, he proved no different to his last major predecssor i.e. a trumper

 

[glasgowspur]

I want someone who does the basics, every game, maximises the likelihood of winning, and gets us back in the CL.

I don’t need to be entertained, I only care about results, I want it to get boring, oh Spurs won easy again and kept a clean sheet, good.

I want it so stress free there is no point in me even watching the games.

I just want to be satisfied with the numbers.

So Liverpool circa late 70s and 80s, bring back the back pass as well.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Exactly. That was my hope. Instead, he proved no different to his last major predecssor i.e. a trumper

He didn’t have the balls to do what he claims he always Does… be brave

 

[lurker of old]

I want it so stress free there is no point in me even watching the games. I just want to be satisfied with the numbers.

Just out of interest, are you a season ticket holder, an occasional visitor to the Lane or an armchair fan?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I want someone who does the basics, every game, maximises the likelihood of winning, and gets us back in the CL.

I don’t need to be entertained, I only care about results, I want it to get boring, oh Spurs won easy again and kept a clean sheet, good.

I want it so stress free there is no point in me even watching the games.

I just want to be satisfied with the numbers.

That's fair enough as long as you don't moan when we win, you are a results fan like the majority in the country. You're doomed to disappointment like most.

 

[Baleforce]

I want it so stress free there is no point in me even watching the games. I just want to be satisfied with the numbers.

Just out of interest, are you a season ticket holder, an occasional visitor to the Lane or an armchair fan?

Armchair now, I used to go a lot, but then had the realisation that I don’t like football fans.

 

[spurspinter1]

Briefly (and I went into this at the time)...Ventrone was Conte's 'calm' consigliari figure and a great communicator with the players. It was increasingly clear to me that the person who could calm Conte when he got fizzy was Ventrone. That he would consult with him. That Ventrone would also talk to the players. Three things happened which derailed Conte IMO. One was Ventrone's death, which I said at the time would throw him and it did. Secondly was the winter World Cup. Thirdly was his own illness. I think his tightrope walk personality hit an inflection point with those factors creating a 'crash' so-to-speak. Thus things got weird. Thus he wanted out.

You talk about 'the ceiling', please!!!! He KNEW the ceiling when he turned us down pre-Nuno. He apparently found the ceiling growing a bit taller when Levy added some womnga onto his proposed wages. MY hope on his appt was that he had told Levy what he wanted and that if he did not get it, he would quit/walk. Instead, he ended up never quite getting what he wanted AND he stuck around. Another to take Daniel -and us and our club- for a fat ride. clown shoe.

BTW, I had the opportunity to discuss Conte's time with a few very well-placed people last year. My assertions were largely correct (the 'ceiling' stuff I have written above is my personal opinion). I can assure you that by the time it came to his explosion at Soton, he was nobody's fave guy.

I don't often say 'I am right' because invariably, most things discussed are opinions with dashes of fact involved. On this one, I verified my initial 'take' at the time with people who would know. So no, not adding any color I can't stand behind.

I don't disagree that in the traditional sense (virgin births, divine interventions, etc) getting 4th was not exactly a 'miracle' but in context, given where the club were, it most certainly counts as one. Nothing like the TRUE miracles Mauricio Pochettino created for several years at our club, but alas, I fear we will disagree on that too...

I knew you'd jump at the chance to throw in consigliere again lol gotta make a mafia reference because they're Italian right? Things didn't get weird, we just remained brick after he put everything he could into it, and that eats away at a workaholic perfectionist.

You can say you've verified it with a sauce but it still sounds a lot like speculation filling in gaps. But you've said you had it confirmed so there's no debating with that eh

And you're right on the "miracle" of Pochettino, don't know where to start on that one but it's better we remain in the present and turn attention to the next game because we aren't covering new ground (my fault for asking the questions in the first place!!!).

 

[lurker of old]

Apart from being a poor manager, I find him (Ange) a thoroughly vile person.

Now that is weird! I suspect it it the opposite of how many feel. Time will tell on Ange, but one thing I do know, when we win at home again, the place will erupt with joy!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Apart from being a poor manager, I find him (Ange) a thoroughly vile person.

Now that is weird! I suspect it it the opposite of how many feel. Time will tell on Ange, but one thing I do know, when we win at home again, the place will erupt with joy!

There are a lot of fans I heard today blaming Ange for so many things that I was in shock
It’s all odd

 

[P.D.]

Dreadful manager, the only club he got above 50% win rate hilariously was United, his Everton & West Ham record is sub 45%, effectively his best numbers would be a firing offense at Spurs. You can dig deeper and find his record against top clubs when in those roles is horrific.

I'd also add, the game changes, fitness, tactics. View of things like data usage are probably way out of someone like Moyes comfort zone (and yes, could be wrong), but generally my hope is our key criteria for next coach (whenever it happens)

- Ability to play front foot football (to @Bishop's point)
- Progressive in things like fitness, data usage, ability to work with DoF structure, etc.

Big Sam actually meets your 2nd point, he was one of the biggest proponents of data science out there I believe, had a massive team of them and was well ahead of most other managers in this area. People always think progressive equals a modern approach with full on data analysis, nutrition, newer fitness methods etc but it doesn't always have too.

 

[thfcsteff]

I knew you'd jump at the chance to throw in consigliere again lol gotta make a mafia reference because they're Italian right? Things didn't get weird, we just remained brick after he put everything he could into it, and that eats away at a workaholic perfectionist.

You can say you've verified it with a sauce but it still sounds a lot like speculation filling in gaps. But you've said you had it confirmed so there's no debating with that eh

And you're right on the "miracle" of Pochettino, don't know where to start on that one but it's better we remain in the present and turn attention to the next game because we aren't covering new ground (my fault for asking the questions in the first place!!!).

That 'mafia' thing? That's your projection.

You're welcome to hold whatever views you have re: Conte, I expressed mine and answered your question in doing so. So correct, with regards to my opinion and my subsequent corroboration of it for my own interest, there is no debate to be had with me.
Your opinions of me, and indeed my opinions, are your business, not mine.

 

[Muttley]

In a round about way, I think THFC share the same some of the same risks with Ange as they did with Conte.

When Conte joined us his entire career as a player and manager had been spent IN Italy. That was, except for 2 seasons. The clues are in those 2 seasons. The first one, he picked up Jose's fantastic Chelsea and put them into that 3-4-3 formation and won the league. The second season, he was sussed out by the other managers, lost the dressing room because of his cultural mismatch and didn't even make CL. When we got him, he had just won Serie A with Inter and guys like the fantastic Barella in a 3-5-2. That squad was nowhere near the City one that won our league though. Then history repeated itself and Conte had one good year again. Even though he'd played 3-5-2 in Serie A, he clearly thought his 3-4-3 would be the answer. Then, the other PL managers sussed him out and we were spiralling again. Conte wasn't a master tactician. He was a repetition, repetition, repetition guy and that doesn't work in the PL. You need to be innovative.

Ange isn't a dissimilar age to what Conte was when he joined Spurs. Ange also has a picture in his head what winning looks like and I think a lot of Spurs fans believe he has the blindspots for what is required in the PL. Unlike Conte though, he isn't a cold personality. If Ange's number 1 GK had just won a winter WC, the player would get a phone call. He'd get the right conversation, even though part of it would still be "how soon are you rested up and ready to pick up your club duties". Conte didn't even mention the win, just went straight into the availability question. That speaks volumes to what Conte was really like. Demanding, focused, non-emotional and a lack of appreciation for how our changing room culture works.

That's why I think Ange can still prevail and can keep the players onside. What Ange must do though is not be a Conte and get stuck on tactics that may not work in this league. He has to figure out eventually that the conditions to be successful in the PL are very different to what they were previously.