Climate Change

[Rorschach]

Problem is you can make all the energy efficiency savings you want but at some point that will stop and if you have an increasing amount of people using it your energy usage is still going to go up.
The base problem is over population.

Energy produced/comsumed from sources that emit no carbon is fine.

Aside, I read (yet another) fusion article there recently. A company that Bill Gates partially funds think they have cracked it. We'll see I suppose, but that is the real game changer.

 

[scaramanga]

Energy produced/comsumed from sources that emit no carbon is fine.

Aside, I read (yet another) cold fusion article there recently. A company that Bill Gates partially funds think they have cracked it. We'll see I suppose, but that is the real game changer.

I'm far from the top of the game when it comes to physics, and my training is only to undergrad level but I'm fairly sure cold fusion won't happen.

Fusion is looking more and more likely, but is probably 20 years away.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm far from the top of the game when it comes to physics, and my training is only to undergrad level but I'm fairly sure cold fusion won't happen.

Fusion is looking more and more likely, but is probably 20 years away.

Argh. You're 100% right. Not cold fusion at all. Too used to typing that!!!
Gates company is saying 10 years away. I'll see if I can find the article.

 

[scaramanga]

Argh. You're 400% right. Not cold fusion at all. Too used to typing that!!!
Gates company is saying 10 years away. I'll see if I can find the article.

It will be a game changer certainly.

Plentiful inputs, harmless outputs and (I believe) instantly scalable up and down with demand.

 

[scaramanga]

Of course, we shouldn't ignore fission in the meantime.

It's an infinitely better source than all of the fossil fuel options with the only real downside being the waste. I've read of plans to simply fire it into space, which would probably work (although expensive). Personally I think it would be simpler and cheaper to just dump it in some garbage country like Wales or Canada.

 

[glasgowspur]

Energy produced/comsumed from sources that emit no carbon is fine.

Aside, I read (yet another) cold fusion article there recently. A company that Bill Gates partially funds think they have cracked it. We'll see I suppose, but that is the real game changer.

Energy is only a part of it, finite resources being consumed by ever growing numbers.
And the more people the more energy.

 

[Rorschach]

Energy is only a part of it, finite resources being consumed by ever growing numbers.
And the more people the more energy.

If you are talking about our dependence on fossil fuel then I agree 100%. The energy I'm talking about is renewable - solar, wind and maybe fusion when we get there. That stuff won't run out. The real problem of our age will be food, and mass migration if the heat keeps increasing.

 

[glasgowspur]

If you are talking about our dependence on fossil fuel then I agree 400%. The energy I'm talking about is renewable - solar, wind and maybe fusion when we get there. That stuff won't run out. The real problem of our age will be food, and mass migration if the heat keeps increasing.

That's what I'm saying, energy isn't the only problem, it's only a small part of it.
More people means more food, more wate, more land, more everything.
And by the way, IF, and it's a BIG FUDGING IF, they crack it in a decade how long before it's usable, the infrastructure is in place etc, another decade? Well the population is expected to be another 2.5 billion people by 2030, that's the problem, technology growth can't keep pace with population growth.

 

[scaramanga]

That's what I'm saying, energy isn't the only problem, it's only a small part of it.
More people means more food, more wate, more land, more everything.
And by the way, IF, and it's a BIG FUDGING IF, they crack it in a decade how long before it's usable, the infrastructure is in place etc, another decade? Well the population is expected to be another 2.5 billion people by 2030, that's the problem, technology growth can't keep pace with population growth.

The two biggest and best drivers behind population control are freedom from religion and female education.

Start a worldwide program of female education and the eradication of religion and you'll see population growth slow to almost a halt.

 

[Bullet]

I've done a fair bit of CSR work. The reason it's only lip service is that people don't really care much at all.

People want companies to be environmentally friendly but on the whole will care more about quality/price. Shareholders want increased wealth and that goes for pension pots too. People will virtue signal all over social media but when it comes to their own wallets, are less concerned.

An expert on the radio last month said someone (government?) had invested millions into a plant that can recycle plastics to make milk containers.
The industry was on board until the price of 'normal' plastic dropped a fraction of a penny below that of the recycled plastic; at which point the industry went back to 'normal' plastic, and the recycling plant was useless.

 

[Bullet]

Don't get me started on recycling. People spend time dividing up their plastics and doing their bit. But then what?


My Group CEO loudly proclaimed that his local council were recycling 95% of rubbish, he'd seen a poster at the tip.
I told him that couldn't be true.
Eventually, after looking into it, he conceded that the council just burns most of the rubbish. This is not recycling.



Likewise councils will turn away a tonne bale of 'recycling' if they spot something in the tonne that shouldn't be there.



Likewise recycling is shipped off to poor countries, and buried in poor countries so we don't have to face it.

 

[Rorschach]

That's what I'm saying, energy isn't the only problem, it's only a small part of it.
More people means more food, more wate, more land, more everything.
And by the way, IF, and it's a BIG FUDGING IF, they crack it in a decade how long before it's usable, the infrastructure is in place etc, another decade? Well the population is expected to be another 2.5 billion people by 2030, that's the problem, technology growth can't keep pace with population growth.

I think the 10-year plan for fusion (15 I'm reading now for the same company in another report) is to bring it to market, but to be honest either will be too late to stop us going over the 2-degree target they have set to stay under. The solar and wind stuff will be the saviour now if we can transition quick enough. That is why politicians like Ocasio-Cortez are so important. This needs mass adoption now and thankfully it is beginning to slowly get traction where it matters.

Energy is also directly related to food production though. If you have unlimited power you can grow masses of foods in relatively small spaces (vertically/indoors). And energy also cools, so unlimited or super cheap energy is life to countries that will experience the worst of the heat increases. Google wet bulb temperature if you want a scare. Mechanical cooling will save a lot of them where it is available. Energy is the key to everything IMO.

But I honestly think a lot of people are going to die because of climate change. It is already happening with the increased frequency of extreme weather events, and this is only the start.

 

[Rorschach]

An expert on the radio last month said someone (government?) had invested millions into a plant that can recycle plastics to make milk containers.
The industry was on board until the price of 'normal' plastic dropped a fraction of a penny below that of the recycled plastic; at which point the industry went back to 'normal' plastic, and the recycling plant was useless.

If the political will is there then they will lob a tax on the normal plastic and reverse the situation.

 

[Rorschach]

The two biggest and best drivers behind population control are freedom from religion and female education.

Start a worldwide program of female education and the eradication of religion and you'll see population growth slow to almost a halt.

As a species, we are also growing infertile. That will help keep the numbers down I guess. I'm not sure if that is just a phenomenon of western society or a global trend.

(edit - not being serious here though we are growing infertile. You are anyway. My seed is good)

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Going vegan helps but you don't have to go that far if you don't want. Just stopping or vastly reducing the amount of beef we eat would have a significant impact.

The EU does have lots of preferencetial deals with developing nations already for certain products as far as I know.

Also, everyone should learn to swim if you can't already. Especially if you live near the coast.

This governments decision not to support the tidal energy plant in Wales was one of the most baffling I have seen in a long time. I have resolved not to talk politics or go in the politics thread or I will probably have to leave this site and never come back. But the tide is the one constant in this country and if it ever does not come in twice a day then we will all have far bigger issues to worry about.

We should be building tidal energy centres all over the UK and though the tech might not be quite there yet we should be building wave turbine technology in the sea round the whole coast of the UK, in the form of a national company that only UK people can invest in. People would love to go for it as they would know they are getting back on their investment as we will always need electricity and it could be done while limiting the buy to let market so as to help young people get on the property ladder.

*At this point I have to admit to two rental homes we own. If the were more investment opportunities for people they would not have to do the buy to let thing and if we could invest in green technology it would move the industry along more.

 

[scaramanga]

If the political will is there then they will lob a tax on the normal plastic and reverse the situation.

I'm not sure that will change all that much.

All of our work is B2B, but the work we do for one major customer goes straight into the homes of normal people once it leaves the warehouse we ship to. We wrap the items in a form of plastic that has been specified by the customer as having the precise protection properties required. We've regularly told our customer that using recycled plastic would take a huge chunk out of their costs, but because the recycled version of the plastic we use has a slight colour tinge to it, customers don't like it. No matter what happens to plastic prices (and we've seen some large spikes) they're not willing to ship to customers like that.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think the 10-year plan for fusion (15 I'm reading now for the same company in another report) is to bring it to market, but to be honest either will be too late to stop us going over the 2-degree target they have set to stay under. The solar and wind stuff will be the saviour now if we can transition quick enough. That is why politicians like Ocasio-Cortez are so important. This needs mass adoption now and thankfully it is beginning to slowly get traction where it matters.

Energy is also directly related to food production though. If you have unlimited power you can grow masses of foods in relatively small spaces (vertically/indoors). And energy also cools, so unlimited or super cheap energy is life to countries that will experience the worst of the heat increases. Google wet bulb temperature if you want a scare. Mechanical cooling will save a lot of them where it is available. Energy is the key to everything IMO.

But I honestly think a lot of people are going to die because of climate change. It is already happening with the increased frequency of extreme weather events, and this is only the start.

The need for Energy efficiency and better food production are the systoms, not the cause.
The basic laws of physics tell you cannot create energy from nothing, eventually this will catch up with us, and the more we breed and need to consume the quicker that will happen.

 

[glasgowspur]

As a species, we are also growing infertile. That will help keep the numbers down I guess. I'm not sure if that is just a phenomenon of western society or a global trend.

That may be true, but the fact that population is growing by 1 billion every decade means its happening to slow.

 

[scaramanga]

This governments decision not to support the tidal energy plant in Wales was one of the most baffling I have seen in a long time. I have resolved not to talk politics or go in the politics thread or I will probably have to leave this site and never come back. But the tide is the one constant in this country and if it ever does not come in twice a day then we will all have far bigger issues to worry about.

We should be building tidal energy centres all over the UK and though the tech might not be quite there yet we should be building wave turbine technology in the sea round the whole coast of the UK, in the form of a national company that only UK people can invest in. People would love to go for it as they would know they are getting back on their investment as we will always need electricity and it could be done while limiting the buy to let market so as to help young people get on the property ladder.

*At this point I have to admit to two rental homes we own. If the were more investment opportunities for people they would not have to do the buy to let thing and if we could invest in green technology it would move the industry along more.

Isn't the problem the storage of that energy?

My understanding is that the power generation isn't smooth enough to go straight to the grid and be a reliable source. That means we need storage to smooth the delivery.

Batteries aren't nearly there yet for large scale storage, and most of the existing methods (pumping water up to a large reservoir, etc) are horribly inefficient.

 

[scaramanga]

The need for Energy efficiency and better food production are the systoms, not the cause.
The basic laws of physics tell you cannot create energy from nothing, eventually this will catch up with us, and the more we breed and need to consume the quicker that will happen.

For all intents and purposes, the energy from the sun (and it's associated forms, like wind) are made from nothing. They work on a scale and use materials that will never effect us within the lifetime of this planet.