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Climate Change

So former drug cheat olympian sticks himself to a plane apparently.

I bet its not the one Greta uses to fly round the world on her PR jaunts.

Someone on here said about making an impact as oppose to just a protest, I'm interested to see the number of positive reactions to the actions against negative.

Even Chris Packham said on radio yesterday that ER are starting to cross the line of "follow us" and "hate us"
 
AuroRaman said:
They were asking for trouble sending someone called Zion Lights on to the show. What on earth is that site you’ve linked from?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
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Political blog. Layed out like it was designed by a politics nerd.
 
scaramanga said:
Political blog. Layed out like it was designed by a politics nerd.
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Layed out by no nerd I have ever met. A blind hamster would have done a better job, but that is beside the point.

This sentence caught my eye - "Extinction Rebellion continually says “listen to the experts” but their demand of net zero emissions by 2025 directly contradicts the 2050 target that the experts are recommending."

There are lots of problems with this one line...
- 2025 is too ambitious a target by any stretch of the imagination. There is no way to turn around the momentum of 10 lifetimes in a few years. This is silly and obviously unachievable.
- 2050 is not what experts are recommending. This is false. That is way too late for every man, woman, child, plant and creature on this planet.

However, listen to the experts on climate change is a mantra that only a fudging macaron would sneer at and ridicule. I'm not really in tune with the XR movement and their specific utterances per se, but (obviously) I am 100% sympathetic to their cause. Only a troglodyte wouldn't be considering the evidence in front of your face every day. Those that use the XR movement's aspirational goals, whether realistic or not, as a weapon to try to knock them back are frankly missing the point. For those that do that I have less respect than actual climate deniers.
If by 2050 if we are still chucking carbon into the atmosphere we'll already be in the 5th level of hell. We will need to have achieved drawdown of greenhouse gasses well before then to still be in the game. And please don't tell me the price of change is too high. That argument is already over.
 
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Rorschach said:
Layed out by no nerd I have ever met. A blind hamster would have done a better job, but that is beside the point.

This sentence caught my eye - "Extinction Rebellion continually says “listen to the experts” but their demand of net zero emissions by 2025 directly contradicts the 2050 target that the experts are recommending."

There are lots of problems with this one line...
- 2025 is too ambitious a target by any stretch of the imagination. There is no way to turn around the momentum of 10 lifetimes in a few years. This is silly and obviously unachievable.
- 2050 is not what experts are recommending. This is false. That is way too late for every man, woman, child, plant and creature on this planet.

However, listen to the experts on climate change is a mantra that only a fudging macaron would sneer at and ridicule. I'm not really in tune with the XR movement and their specific utterances per se, but (obviously) I am 400% sympathetic to their cause. Only a troglodyte wouldn't be considering the evidence in front of your face every day. Those that use the XR movement's aspirational goals, whether realistic or not, as a weapon to try to knock them back are frankly missing the point. For those that do that I have less respect than actual climate deniers.
If by 2050 if we are still chucking carbon into the atmosphere we'll already be in the 5th level of hell. We will need to have achieved drawdown of greenhouse gasses well before then to still be in the game. And please don't tell me the price of change is too high. That argument is already over.
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That's not how I read the article.

It reads to me as if the author is (rightfully) sneering at xr for telling us to listen to the experts whilst not doing so themselves.

The 2050 figure is from the IPCC executive summary on how to keep the Δ to 1.5C, I believe.
 
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Rorschach said:
However, listen to the experts on climate change is a mantra that only a fudging macaron would sneer at and ridicule. I'm not really in tune with the XR movement and their specific utterances per se, but (obviously) I am 400% sympathetic to their cause. Only a troglodyte wouldn't be considering the evidence in front of your face every day. Those that use the XR movement's aspirational goals, whether realistic or not, as a weapon to try to knock them back are frankly missing the point. For those that do that I have less respect than actual climate deniers.
If by 2050 if we are still chucking carbon into the atmosphere we'll already be in the 5th level of hell. We will need to have achieved drawdown of greenhouse gasses well before then to still be in the game. And please don't tell me the price of change is too high. That argument is already over.
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The thing is you can be all for the cause for climate change and against XR, Andrew Neils interview called it exactly as it is, great intentions but hugely misplaced and hugely inaccurate. To the point their spokeswoman admitted they were fudging their figures to make a bigger impact.

XR have to be careful on 1 - their message and its accuracy and 2 - how its putting that across because if their facts are wrong and their antics are overly disruptive then they lose all credibility and are more harmful to the cause than anyone
 
Grays_1890 said:
The thing is you can be all for the cause for climate change and against XR, Andrew Neils interview called it exactly as it is, great intentions but hugely misplaced and hugely inaccurate. To the point their spokeswoman admitted they were fudging their figures to make a bigger impact.

XR have to be careful on 1 - their message and its accuracy and 2 - how its putting that across because if their facts are wrong and their antics are overly disruptive then they lose all credibility and are more harmful to the cause than anyone
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I was driving into work yesterday morning and there were 2 trustafarians at a motorway on slip with a cardboard hitching sign for London. They were clearly going for the protests.

I was only 5th in the queue at the roundabout to get onto the slip and I was the 3rd person to flip them off on the way past. Obviously I did it sideways which made it both more stylish and more polluting.
 
Grays_1890 said:
The thing is you can be all for the cause for climate change and against XR, Andrew Neils interview called it exactly as it is, great intentions but hugely misplaced and hugely inaccurate. To the point their spokeswoman admitted they were fudging their figures to make a bigger impact.

XR have to be careful on 1 - their message and its accuracy and 2 - how its putting that across because if their facts are wrong and their antics are overly disruptive then they lose all credibility and are more harmful to the cause than anyone
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Which they were already taken apart for when they did their first actions before this round and admitted to doing so. Essentially what our government and media do every single day but don’t get vilified for in the same manner.

If you believe they have great intentions then you’re already a supporter. You just don’t like to be inconvenienced as we all don’t, and sadly that gets focused on rather than the core message of these actions; the government needs to outline what it’s actually going to do. XR achieved its objective of getting a climate emergency declared the first time round. Now it’s objective is to force the issue and demand action, as simply declaring an emergency doesn’t legally require anyone to act on it.

It’s easy and lazy to peddle the generic line that they’re not achieving anything or are harmful (all that non-violent direct action is pretty harmful I guess) and not credible, yet XR is now a global movement and is being discussed everywhere from mainstream media to the finest football forum in Chichester. This is exactly what XR want. It’s promoting change on an individual level (successfully) whilst the movement fights for wholesale systematic change.

I write this as a vociferous critic of XR, I think there’s so many fundamental flaws with the movement but rather than moan or attack it, I’ve got involved through other groups to promote change within. Because the core intention is a fudging good one.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
scaramanga said:
I was driving into work yesterday morning and there were 2 trustafarians at a motorway on slip with a cardboard hitching sign for London. They were clearly going for the protests.

I was only 5th in the queue at the roundabout to get onto the slip and I was the 3rd person to flip them off on the way past. Obviously I did it sideways which made it both more stylish and more polluting.
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695e311e6fc4fafcfba714c5acf5439f.jpg




Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
AuroRaman said:
It’s easy and lazy to peddle the generic line that they’re not achieving anything or are harmful (all that non-violent direct action is pretty harmful I guess) and not credible, yet XR is now a global movement and is being discussed everywhere from mainstream media to the finest football forum in Chichester. This is exactly what XR want. It’s promoting change on an individual level (successfully) whilst the movement fights for wholesale systematic change.
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I am not that inconvenienced by them, I do feel the inconvenience is not making any relevant conversations though. Yes people are talking about XR but are they pulling them along with them? For me XR is more the news than climate change which I don't think it helped by their message which is inaccurate and their actions.

I am not trying to be tricky at all but I don't have any take away's from their actions or messages as many have not. Yes we are talking about "climate change" but what?

Also I would argue any action needs a call to action, but what is their call to action? when their message is so muddled and inaccurate what is it? Andrew Neil had a field day with their designated spokesperson, all jokes aside that's poor for such a global force.

The maIn danger I feel for them is people who have no sense of belonging now have a place to lay their cap with XR, like many movements in the world, its all very much "that looks a good idea I think I will join that", that does not in my opinion make it excellent.
 
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scaramanga said:
I was driving into work yesterday morning and there were 2 trustafarians at a motorway on slip with a cardboard hitching sign for London. They were clearly going for the protests.

I was only 5th in the queue at the roundabout to get onto the slip and I was the 3rd person to flip them off on the way past. Obviously I did it sideways which made it both more stylish and more polluting.
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Did you get your driver to tell them to go forth and multiply as well ??
 
Grays_1890 said:
I am not that inconvenienced by them, I do feel the inconvenience is not making any relevant conversations though. Yes people are talking about XR but are they pulling them along with them? For me XR is more the news than climate change which I don't think it helped by their message which is inaccurate and their actions.

I am not trying to be tricky at all but I don't have any take away's from their actions or messages as many have not. Yes we are talking about "climate change" but what?

Also I would argue any action needs a call to action, but what is their call to action? when their message is so muddled and inaccurate what is it? Andrew Neil had a field day with their designated spokesperson, all jokes aside that's poor for such a global force.

The man danger I feel for them is people who have no sense of belonging now have a place to play their cap with XR, like many movements in the world, its all very much "that looks a good idea I think I will join that", that does not in my opinion make it excellent.
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Thanks I’ll get back to you this evening Really good and fair points made in this.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
I don't think people are questioning the overall cause so much but more their very narrow specific aims which they're then unable to explain how to do it. If one of your 3 central aims is to achieve zero net emissions by 2025 it's not unreasonable to ask them how they intend to do that is it? Then when they don't get a proper answer suggest some ways such as stopping all flying tomorrow and ask if thats what they mean they retort with we put a man on the moon.

As I've posted in here before there's still no clear message about what the average person can do to help the cause without spending thousands of pounds reconfiguring their home to use heat pumps etc and what it will generally mean for society. People talk about leaving the Eu reducing opportunities for youngsters what will stopping flying do to opportunities for instance? A good cause and interesting debate but as of yet people don't really have answers to these basis questions.
 
P.D. said:
As I've posted in here before there's still no clear message about what the average person can do to help the cause without spending thousands of pounds reconfiguring their home to use heat pumps etc
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Thats a great statement and one that puts into better words what I am trying to say. Save the country millions of pounds in policing the protests towards a country that is doing more than most and put out some real achievable actions that we can all get onto and we can TOGETHER make a difference.
 
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