Christian Eriksen

[Bedfordspurs]

When it comes to physical courage, or a lack thereof, I don't know that there can be any valid defences.

Physical courage Is hard to measure. I don't want any player getting booted in the face for the sake of it... but if it means scoring the winner then I want a player to take one for the team.

It's a balancing act. I remember Ghaly getting his teeth smashed out demonstrating physical courage... and the same player got slated for being angry at being subbed and throwing his shirt. Both take courage and passion

 

[Baleforce]

I don't see criticism of a players perceived weaknesses a bad thing. Lloris does a lot of work with his hands but I still expect him to able to pass to a teammate with his feet, Kane is a forward but I still expect him to help defend corners.

All of our players can improve in some way and the argument that we should accept players for what they are works both ways, we either accept them all without criticism or we don't.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't see criticism of a players perceived weaknesses a bad thing. Lloris does a lot of work with his hands but I still expect him to able to pass to a teammate with his feet, Kane is a forward but I still expect him to help defend corners.

All of our players can improve in some way and the argument that we should accept players for what they are works both ways, we either accept them all without criticism or we don't.

Fair comment

Maybe I should have said that if a player was perfect he wouldnt be playing for us

 

[mudshark]

Physical courage Is hard to measure. I don't want any player getting booted in the face for the sake of it... but if it means scoring the winner then I want a player to take one for the team.

It's a balancing act. I remember Ghaly getting his teeth smashed out demonstrating physical courage... and the same player got slated for being angry at being subbed and throwing his shirt. Both take courage and passion

Agree completely. I liked Ghaly, and thought the vituperation he was subjected to over the shirt thing was beyond ridiculous. I remember wondering how many of those so loudly indignant over that incident would have been willing to stick their own faces in where the boots were flying for the glory of the club.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I don't see criticism of a players perceived weaknesses a bad thing. Lloris does a lot of work with his hands but I still expect him to able to pass to a teammate with his feet, Kane is a forward but I still expect him to help defend corners.

All of our players can improve in some way and the argument that we should accept players for what they are works both ways, we either accept them all without criticism or we don't.

No one is saying Eriksen should not try to improve. But to harp on ad nauseum about one specific element of his personality when it's clearly something deeply ingrained, something in his genes, what on earth's' the point? It's that kind of attitude that kept Ghod from becoming England's playmaker for so many years.

Maybe if he put his mind to it Poch could turn Eriksen into some real hard nut but even it that were possible, is it really the player we want or need him to become? And if so, what might we lose from him along the way?

Any reasonable judge who watches Eriksen closely cannot fail to notice how hard he works for the team, week in week out. That's plenty good enough for me. Besides, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Poch's first XI if he didn't sweat blood every week trying to get better.

 

[FatBloke]

Agree completely. I liked Ghaly, and thought the vituperation he was subjected to over the shirt thing was beyond ridiculous. I remember wondering how many of those so loudly indignant over that incident would have been willing to stick their own faces in where the boots were flying for the glory of the club.

You get a like just for using the word "vituperation". Nice work.
Actually, I also agree with everything you've said there. He got subbed, he threw a hissy fit, fair enough. As long as he was prepared to apologise to the gaffer and the team afterwards, no harm done.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This could go round the houses

I don't mind an attacking player not doing some of the defensive duties

 

[Finney Is Back]

I keep hearing we can do better than CE and that we should be looking to sign better.

Premier League record:
Games: 111
Goals: 26
Assists: 27

I would be interested to see who we could sign (who would accept our wage structure) that can improve on this record.

Suggestions?

PS:

Coutinho
120
26
27

Ozil
96
19
35

These players on the open market would cost north of £30-£35m and command £150k per week+ imo. Just using these as a benchmark.

Ozil is already on £150k per week and seems to be asking Arsenal for £250k a week to stay.... that is before we consider the fact that he isn't prepared to contribute defensively (which players in Pochettino's team cannot get away with.... Chadli being sold is evidence of that).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Don't try to knock down straw men. No one said he had to 'dive into' tackles, they just don't want to see him ducking out of them. It would also be reassuring to see him actually attack the ball when going for headers, instead of hanging back.

I'm not sure I've seen the likes of Ozil or Payet going in for 50-50s or towering into headers either? Should their teams instead pick players who specialise in such things?

The stats seem to show Eriksen as at their level, if not better but the stats don't always tell the full story. Ozil goes missing a lot granted but Coutinho's overall play is better IMO.

IMO Coutinho plays quite a lot further forward than Eriksen. He has nothing like the same defensive responsibilities. While Eriksen is indeed weak in the air and does bottle out of tackles that he is not a considerable favourite to win, I don't think it really detracts from his game. His work-rate is superb, he wins the ball a lot for a creative player, generally by intercepting it or nicking it off his opponent, he presses well, gets himself goalside when the opposition attack and rarely, if ever, allows his opposing full back to get forward unopposed.

Sure we could replace him with a blood and thunder Scott Parker type, but for all the chest thumping and hard tackling that we would gain, we would lose a lot more in terms of creativity, and ability to transition defence to attack. We have the likes of Wanyama, Dier and (to a lesser extent) Dembele to smash into tackles and win headers, do we really care that our most creative midfielder doesn't do that? Does the team really suffer from Eriksen's deficiencies in this area?

 

[Finney Is Back]

This could go round the houses

I don't mind an attacking player not doing some of the defensive duties

The thing is that Eriksen DOES do his defensive duties. He is a true team player, he just lacks a bit of courage in terms of going in for headers or for hard tackles. Instead of that though he get's himself goalside and plays his full part in ensuring that the opposition cannot transition the ball forward quickly and catch us out of position.

 

[Lemonade Money]

The thing is that Eriksen DOES do his defensive duties. He is a true team player, he just lacks a bit of courage in terms of going in for headers or for hard tackles. Instead of that though he get's himself goalside and plays his full part in ensuring that the opposition cannot transition the ball forward quickly and catch us out of position.

Look where that gets Wheelchair.

 

[Baleforce]

No one is saying Eriksen should not try to improve. But to harp on ad nauseum about one specific element of his personality when it's clearly something deeply ingrained, something in his genes, what on earth's' the point? It's that kind of attitude that kept Ghod from becoming England's playmaker for so many years.

Maybe if he put his mind to it Poch could turn Eriksen into some real hard nut but even it that were possible, is it really the player we want or need him to become? And if so, what might we lose from him along the way?

Any reasonable judge who watches Eriksen closely cannot fail to notice how hard he works for the team, week in week out. That's plenty good enough for me. Besides, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Poch's first XI if he didn't sweat blood every week trying to get better.

I think there is a lot of space between "hard nut" and more decisive, I don't expect him to turn into Bobby Smith. I criticised the way he handled the open goal opportunity on Saturday, I think that was a different enough criticism and worthy of comment, it was noted by analysts on the live coverage and MotD.

 

[Gazza]

You get a like just for using the word "vituperation". Nice work.
Actually, I also agree with everything you've said there. He got subbed, he threw a hissy fit, fair enough. As long as he was prepared to apologise to the gaffer and the team afterwards, no harm done.

He was passionate and completely agree with both ... he should have known better though to throw the shirt. Some of our so called fans can't wait to jump on a players back if he is not flavour of the month or playing like Maradona from the off all game every game.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I think there is a lot of space between "hard nut" and more decisive, I don't expect him to turn into Bobby Smith. I criticised the way he handled the open goal opportunity on Saturday, I think that was a different enough criticism and worthy of comment, it was noted by analysts on the live coverage and MotD.

That's where you and I differ. I was every bit as annoyed and embarrassed as everyone else but I accept that's how he is. I do not believe he is actually capable of changing his nature in those situations. It just ain't going to happen, leopards do not change their spots.

But as Finney says a few posts above, on the whole you get a lot of other good stuff from him, in return if you like, so why let something you cannot really hope to change nark you so much?

 

[thfcsteff]

For me the discussion about Eriksen is getting skewed into a physical versus not physical issue, when I personally think it is a non-issue. as has been said, we know he isn't Graham Roberts and we also k ow that often, his positioning means he cuts out attacks without having to be physical.

My BIG issue with him right now is courage on the ball! NOT physically, mentally! He has the ability to turn into positive space and make things happen merely by moving forwards, yet too often he has chosen to slow the play down by passing short and square, or worse still, dithering. Perhaps that's because he (like many) have missed Kane's intelligent early movements to the benefit of the entire front line. But it is this which is my key complaint, and one I hope he continues to address. One thing with Alli; whether in rich or average form, his first movement is always to try and be positive; he has ben slagged off for the pen on Saturday, but let's face it, he bust a gut to put himself into the position to win it! The times I have wanted Christian to move into the pockets ahead and across the defender...!!!!

 

[Bullet]

too often he has chosen to slow the play down by passing short and square, or worse still, dithering. Perhaps that's because he (like many) have missed Kane's intelligent early movements to the benefit of the entire front line.

I was listening to Steve McManaman's interview podcast (Graham Hunter) about playing at 'Pool and then Real. He mentioned that at Pool he was expected to be the one that created everything with dribbles, crosses, shots, whereas at Real he transitioned to a more defensive midfield position playing in a 3 with Redondo and Raul (pretty attacking 3!!)

Anyway, he was making the point that at Real he would just give it to people he trusted to do a good job, so if they were in a good position he gave it to them to do their stuff. Reading between the lines, he would not have been so quick to pass if he was playing with less skillful team mates. Perhaps Eriksen feels the same way. He sees an option and thinks "that guy lost it or wasted the last 4 passes, why give it to him again, who else do I have open?"

 

[Spur of the moment]

For me the discussion about Eriksen is getting skewed into a physical versus not physical issue, when I personally think it is a non-issue. as has been said, we know he isn't Graham Roberts and we also k ow that often, his positioning means he cuts out attacks without having to be physical.

My BIG issue with him right now is courage on the ball! NOT physically, mentally! He has the ability to turn into positive space and make things happen merely by moving forwards, yet too often he has chosen to slow the play down by passing short and square, or worse still, dithering. Perhaps that's because he (like many) have missed Kane's intelligent early movements to the benefit of the entire front line. But it is this which is my key complaint, and one I hope he continues to address. One thing with Alli; whether in rich or average form, his first movement is always to try and be positive; he has ben slagged off for the pen on Saturday, but let's face it, he bust a gut to put himself into the position to win it! The times I have wanted Christian to move into the pockets ahead and across the defender...!!!!

How strange, I really do not recognise that at all. The Eriksen I watch is good at instantly pinging the ball forward, either to feet or into space for a forward to run onto. For me it's his accuracy that has been his biggest bugbear in recent months.

 

[glasgowspur]

I was listening to Steve McManaman's interview podcast (Graham Hunter) about playing at 'Pool and then Real. He mentioned that at Pool he was expected to be the one that created everything with dribbles, crosses, shots, whereas at Real he transitioned to a more defensive midfield position playing in a 3 with Redondo and Raul (pretty attacking 3!!)

Anyway, he was making the point that at Real he would just give it to people he trusted to do a good job, so if they were in a good position he gave it to them to do their stuff. Reading between the lines, he would not have been so quick to pass if he was playing with less skillful team mates. Perhaps Eriksen feels the same way. He sees an option and thinks "that guy lost it or wasted the last 4 passes, why give it to him again, who else do I have open?"

Well if they all did that eriksen wouldn't have got a pass from anyone else for 3 months because he kept giving it away.

 

[Baleforce]

That's where you and I differ. I was every bit as annoyed and embarrassed as everyone else but I accept that's how he is. I do not believe he is actually capable of changing his nature in those situations. It just ain't going to happen, leopards do not change their spots.

But as Finney says a few posts above, on the whole you get a lot of other good stuff from him, in return if you like, so why let something you cannot really hope to change nark you so much?

My feeling for that incident was that the longer he fudged about the more chance there was of the defender kicking him in the head, had he just got straight to it, jumped and buried it the defender wouldn't have time to make up the yard of space, his indecisiveness increased the chance of physicality imo.

I hope we are trying to change every weakness in every member of the squad every day.

Like I said we either criticise shortcomings or we don't, it's binary. I can't moan at Dembele for not releasing the ball at the right time or at Walker for playing a hospital ball if i'm not going to call out Lloris for his poor distribution just because he's a bigger asset surely?

Spoiler: I'm going to do all of those things, i'd have found things to criticise and Greaves and Blanchflower for too i'm sure. Nobody is perfect, but that has to be the target.

 

[Rorschach]

For me the discussion about Eriksen is getting skewed into a physical versus not physical issue, when I personally think it is a non-issue. as has been said, we know he isn't Graham Roberts and we also k ow that often, his positioning means he cuts out attacks without having to be physical.

My BIG issue with him right now is courage on the ball! NOT physically, mentally! He has the ability to turn into positive space and make things happen merely by moving forwards, yet too often he has chosen to slow the play down by passing short and square, or worse still, dithering. Perhaps that's because he (like many) have missed Kane's intelligent early movements to the benefit of the entire front line. But it is this which is my key complaint, and one I hope he continues to address. One thing with Alli; whether in rich or average form, his first movement is always to try and be positive; he has ben slagged off for the pen on Saturday, but let's face it, he bust a gut to put himself into the position to win it! The times I have wanted Christian to move into the pockets ahead and across the defender...!!!!

Yep this is kinda the gist of it for me too. I don't really care too much he's not going into tackles and headers as long as he is contributing going the other way. But Eriksen has been off the boil from an attacking perspective for a while now and that is what was drawing my criticism. As you say he was playing within himself and keeping it safe rather than taking the progressive option. Of late a lot of his forward passes were not finding their target which is probably the reason for this more negative/safe play but those recent goals will turn the ship around I think.

I genuinely believe we have not seen Eriksen operating at the level he is capable of. It's in him to be better than Ozil, Coutinho or whoever on a consistent basis.