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Christian Benteke

scaramanga said:
I'm sure you can pick out any number of goals scored that way. What that fails to take into account is the huge number of attempts required for each of those goals (roughly 57 at last measure).
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I do partly agree with you that the cross delivered from deep results in a low ratio of goals (especially compared to ones delivered from inside the penalty area) but it is more complex than taking those two stats in isolation as the number of times a move would typically break down in between being in a position to deliver a deep cross and working your way into a position to deliver the ball from within the penalty area.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I do partly agree with you that the cross delivered from deep results in a low ratio of goals (especially compared to ones delivered from inside the penalty area) but it is more complex than taking those two stats in isolation as the number of times a move would typically break down in between being in a position to deliver a deep cross and working your way into a position to deliver the ball from within the penalty area.
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You're giving the ball away one way or another (except in the one in 60 where you score from the deep cross). Far better to (on the whole, not always) try and work a better scoring position IMO.
 
scaramanga said:
You're giving the ball away one way or another (except in the one in 60 where you score from the deep cross). Far better to (on the whole, not always) try and work a better scoring position IMO.
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Well, that's not true at all. Failure to score does not equate with "giving the ball away". How many of the 60 crosses result in corners, for example? Do you have that stat? Winning a corner is not the same as giving the ball away. How many of the 60 end in throw-ins with the cross being blocked back out to the touchline (or flicked on to the opposite one)? How many result in a clearance that results in retaining possession more centrally, though still in an attacking position?

I'm not saying that crosses are a good (or statistically sensible) strategy. But it's just not true to claim that every cross in 60 (except the one goal) results in giving the ball away. I'd actually be quite surprised if much more than half of crosses result in a complete loss of possession (willing to be corrected though; that's based on observation not stats).
 
scaramanga said:
Crossing has always been a low return way of scoring - it's just that we're only now realising it. It's a fault of the way our minds work to remember the one goal after the 60 failed crosses - we also (wrongly) get excited when we see them happen because of the way goals stick in the memory more than failed crosses. We wrongly conflate a cross that nearly reaches the striker or one that he connects with but misses with a likely chance of creating a goal - in fact it's not.

If we were to put in 60 crosses in a match (and not attempt to score in any other manner) and lose 2-1 we'd probably leave the ground thinking that we were all over them and were hard done by to lose - after all, we were putting in a cross every 90 seconds. That's how our minds work. In fact, one goal from that output is bang in line with the expected return and we probably wouldn't even consider that we'd surrendered possession 59 times in the final third trying to score it.
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You have argued that for ages and I get the logic but I'd still put a lot down to the fact that so few players can actually cross a ball now

Hell Most can't even take a corner past the first man
 
DublinSpur said:
Well, that's not true at all. Failure to score does not equate with "giving the ball away". How many of the 60 crosses result in corners, for example? Do you have that stat? Winning a corner is not the same as giving the ball away. How many of the 60 end in throw-ins with the cross being blocked back out to the touchline (or flicked on to the opposite one)? How many result in a clearance that results in retaining possession more centrally, though still in an attacking position?

I'm not saying that crosses are a good (or statistically sensible) strategy. But it's just not true to claim that every cross in 60 (except the one goal) results in giving the ball away. I'd actually be quite surprised if much more than half of crosses result in a complete loss of possession (willing to be corrected though; that's based on observation not stats).
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You're right, it's lazy to say that all crosses end up as losing possession. I'm not sure there's much benefit to the cross ending up as a corner - I believe they're even lower return than a cross. Other than that, how many secondary shooting opportunities do you see come from a cross? It's dangerous to rely on memory, I know, but I'm fairly sure it's not all that common.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You have argued that for ages and I get the logic but I'd still put a lot down to the fact that so few players can actually cross a ball now

Hell Most can't even take a corner past the first man
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I doubt many of them are particularly well-versed in playing the W formation either! If I were a coach I'd be spending my time teaching more valuable skills too.
 
scaramanga said:
I doubt many of them are particularly well-versed in playing the W formation either! If I were a coach I'd be spending my time teaching more valuable skills too.
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I get the impression that flexibility in approach is not coached in younger players

The best thing I heard about Brazilian soccer schools was a says the were no player had a position. They have each player a coin when they turned up and it's their position for the game do they have to be flexible
 
Maybe this was the big July 1st news, and not Rodgers leaving. o_O

Anyway I am super pleased he is joining Liverpool and not us :D
 
scaramanga said:
You're right, it's lazy to say that all crosses end up as losing possession. I'm not sure there's much benefit to the cross ending up as a corner - I believe they're even lower return than a cross. Other than that, how many secondary shooting opportunities do you see come from a cross? It's dangerous to rely on memory, I know, but I'm fairly sure it's not all that common.
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I believe that was one of the reasons for the move towards inverted wingers. An inswinging ball puts the keeper under immediate pressure and the rebound is more likely to fall in a dangerous position.
 
I can imagine the Vialla board turning round and saying sorry Spurs he only wants Liverpool...

And Liverpool turning round and saying we want him but can you please take Balotelli, Lambert, Original and Borini please in exchange...

I do not believe for 1 second that he has been spouting off about only wanting to go to Liverpool. I'm far from convinced that either us or them are after him too. I think it's agent talk again
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I can imagine the Vialla board turning round and saying sorry Spurs he only wants Liverpool...

And Liverpool turning round and saying we want him but can you please take Balotelli, Lambert, Original and Borini please in exchange...

I do not believe for 1 second that he has been spouting off about only wanting to go to Liverpool. I'm far from convinced that either us or them are after him too. I think it's agent talk again
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It would be strange agent talk to shut the door on one of the only two clubs that are linked with you

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ub-spurs-even-if-deal-is-agreed-10355153.html
 
milo said:
Who knows but it did sound to me that the story about him having the hump with us is most likely to have come from his camp.
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Well, if he put in a transfer request because he was lead to believe we would buy him I can understand while he would have the hump. Whether or not that story is true is up for debate
 
NaijaSpurs said:
Well, if he put in a transfer request because he was lead to believe we would buy him I can understand while he would have the hump. Whether or not that story is true is up for debate
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Even if the selling club are quoting twice your market value?
 
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