Champions League 2015/16

[Neymar]

Sadly the UEFA cup would NOT be a sideshow for us; are you REALLY a Spurs fan? Do you actually remember the last time WE won a European trophy???

i doubt sevilla put out 2nd string teams with the fequency that we have done in this competition

the problem is that financially it just doesnt make sense for us to exert ourselves in this competition. but for sevilla it probably does. showing the gap between ourselves and them

 

[milo]

@Neymar if our clubs are so much better than clubs finishing in equivalent positions in the main European leagues, why do English clubs have such a shocking record in European competitions of late?

 

[glorygloryeze]

konoplyanka is probably the only attacking player that is arguably better than stoke's. and even this isnt definitive. hes shone in a second rate league. never been at a top club until now. look at the depth at stoke. sevilla are miles short of having that quality of depth

 

[Neymar]

firstly, i never said the likes of Emirates Marketing Project were better than real madrid.
secondly, i think the physical exertions of the epl are huge.
thirdly, and probably most importantly, sample size.

 

[glorygloryeze]

its not far more. its very close. i suspect a lot closer (logrithmically speaking)than stoke to sevilla

Really?? I'm sure i've heard you argue the opposite, esp in regards to your idols. Please provide some figures to stop the ridicule that will no doubt come your way...

 

[Neymar]

the movement of players like deulofeu and muniesa to mid table epl clubs to sit on the bench really should show how much stronger epl clubs are

 

[glorygloryeze]

the movement of players like deulofeu and muniesa to mid table epl clubs to sit on the bench really should show how much stronger epl clubs are

So as Milo has asked why are EPL clubs performing so badly in Europe compared to their counterparts if the EPL clubs REALLY are much stronger?

 

[Neymar]

Really?? I'm sure i've heard you argue the opposite, esp in regards to your idols. Please provide some figures to stop the ridicule that will no doubt come your way...

figures attained from following sources. but figures from other sources are similar.

http://www.tsmplug.com/football/spanish-la-liga-players-salaries/
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...bill-weight-tottenham-on-target-10193090.html

tott salary = 100m, lpool salary=144m
sevilla = 30m, stoke = 60m

100/144= 0.69
30/60= 0.50

/end debate

 

[Neymar]

So as Milo has asked why are EPL clubs performing so badly in Europe compared to their counterparts if the EPL clubs REALLY are much stronger?

and ive answered it

 

[glorygloryeze]

figures attained from following sources. but figures from other sources are similar.

http://www.tsmplug.com/football/spanish-la-liga-players-salaries/
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...bill-weight-tottenham-on-target-10193090.html

tott salary = 100m, lpool salary=144m
sevilla = 30m, stoke = 60m

100/144= 0.69
30/60= 0.50

/end debate

Yes, you have ended the debate....the one where money spent on wages AUTOMATICALLY means you will do better than your peers who spend less...

 

[glorygloryeze]

and ive answered it

I don't think you have....what you wrote just stated that you've never said that Emirates Marketing Project are better than Real Madrid....but you didn't show why even though the riches of the EPL are going up, the EPL's performance in Europe is going down...oh and the EPL has been a physical slog for years so you're going to have to come with more than that i'm afraid...

 

[Neymar]

Yes, you have ended the debate....the one where money spent on wages AUTOMATICALLY means you will do better than your peers who spend less...

you guys want to believe that top level football is about more than finances. and understandably too. the realisation that we may not challenge any time soon is too painful for us to think about. and i was in the same boat too at one stage.

but look around. the only teams that win are either historic powerhouses, or nouveau riche clubs. unfortunately, thats modern day football

 

[Neymar]

I don't think you have....what you wrote just stated that you've never said that Emirates Marketing Project are better than Real Madrid....but you didn't show why even though the riches of the EPL are going up, the EPL's performance in Europe is going down...oh and the EPL has been a physical slog for years so you're going to have to come with more than that i'm afraid...

the "problem" is that the epl is getting stronger from top to bottom. with the bottom getting a lot stronger faster the top.

the issue is that the epl distributed the income via a flat pay scheme. if we wanted our clubs to do well in europe, we shouldve just given that extra income to the top 4 teams. but by giving it across the league, we have made the top teams have to exert a lot more on a week to week basis. thus weakening them for europe.

look at arsenal this week. they're now taking the route of resting players in the ucl. before, wenger and fergie used to rest players in the league before a ucl game. even the top 4 sides cant afford to do this anymore because of how money is distributed throughout the league.

 

[milo]

firstly, i never said the likes of Emirates Marketing Project were better than real madrid.

Agreed. I do not think that any English club is as good as the top two in Spain or Bayern Munich currently.

secondly, i think the physical exertions of the epl are huge.

Again, I agree but if even mid-table Premier League clubs have far superior squads, then surely that should help mitigate against that and allow them to do better in Europe.

thirdly, and probably most importantly, sample size.

This isn't a problem that is new this season. English clubs have been under performing in Europe for a while and there are a lot of European games.

I think that the biggest issue is that English clubs sign players to compete in the Premier League and a lot of these are ill equipped to European competition. The reason why the wage bills are higher here is because there is competition for the players that are best suited to the English game.

 

[milo]

you guys want to believe that top level football is about more than finances. and understandably too. the realisation that we may not challenge any time soon is too painful for us to think about. and i was in the same boat too at one stage.

but look around. the only teams that win are either historic powerhouses, or nouveau riche clubs. unfortunately, thats modern day football

So why don't English teams do better in European given that it is the richest league in the world and we have more nouveau riche clubs than any other country?

 

[Neymar]

I think that the biggest issue is that English clubs sign players to compete in the Premier League and a lot of these are ill equipped to European competition.

whilst i think there is some truth to this. i think this reason has been overplayed in the media.

the likes of ozil, cazorla, silva, hazard, mata, rooney, yaya, sterling ,ageuro, de bruyne would be good in any league including the epl. hence why these players always finish at the top of the league.

when these top epl sides buy foreign players, its not like they are buying someone who perhaps wasnt doing so well is a germany or spain because they think he is more suited to the pl. these epl sides often buy the top players from places like spain or germany (as long as rm, barca or bayern) arent in for that player

 

[Neymar]

So why don't English teams do better in European given that it is the richest league in the world and we have more nouveau riche clubs than any other country?

post #313 and sample size

 

[milo]

post #313 and sample size

I responded to your sample size point in post #314.

I disagree with you about Arsenal this week. Arsenal lost because they are not very good and Wenger under estimated the opposition.

 

[Neymar]

I responded to your sample size point in post #314.

I disagree with you about Ar5ena1 this week. Ar5ena1 lost because they are not very good and Wenger under estimated the opposition.

i think your underestimating the required sample to build the kind of conclusions your suggesting. but i guess this is my opinion against yours.

 

[Neymar]

I responded to your sample size point in post #314.

I disagree with you about Ar5ena1 this week. Ar5ena1 lost because they are not very good and Wenger under estimated the opposition.

very possible that what your suggesting was part of the reason why arsenal lost. but the biggest reason is that you can lose a game of football that you dominate, and thats what happened here. arsenal dominated and controlled the game. olympiakos had one of those 3 shots, 3 goals days. and even with the performance that arsenal gave on the day, they would be right to assume that they would come out on top most of the time with that performance.