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Cameron for Cash

This will put the EU question back into the spotlight.

http://www.peoplespledge.org/


Thurrock referendum historic result

Numbers voting AGREE 13,111 (89.9%)
Numbers voting DISAGREE 1,479 (10.1%)

The People’s Pledge campaign in Thurrock closed yesterday at 5pm. 47,995 ballot papers were issued by Electoral Reform Services Limited, and 14,590 people have returned them by post or voted electronically. That is a turnout of 30.39%

The result will cause consternation among all the main parties at Westminster who have all tried to ignore the issue. In Thurrock itself, both the Conservative MP, Jackie Doyle-Price, and her Labour challenger, Polly Billington, have refused to engage with the People’s Pledge. In a seat where the majority was 92 at the last election, neither politician can now afford to ignore 14,590 local voters, almost as many as each of their parties polled in the general election.

Ian McKenzie, Director of the People’s Pledge, commenting immediately after the figures were announced, said:

“This turnout is astonishing and vastly exceeds anyone’s expectations, including mine. Two months’ very hard work by our small highly dedicated team has paid off in spectacular style. Earlier this week, when we were finding so people had already voted, it was clear something very exciting was about to happen. These numbers were simply unimaginable.

“A turnout this large proves two things. First, electors will respond to political activity that engages them. The myth of the uninterested citizen is just that, a myth. Knock on enough doors, respectfully explain why you are there, and, if your message is strong enough, people will respond.

“Second, the political parties at Westminster are going to have to rethink their attitude to a national referendum on the EU. “Heads in sand” is no longer a viable strategy; the people of Thurrock have just taken it off the table.

“I hear reports that the Whips on both sides of the House of Commons have been active in recent weeks trying to dismiss the People’s Pledge. I have immense respect for the Whips having worked for a Government Chief Whip for three years, so I overcome some trepidation when I implore them to look upon the People’s Pledge not as a posing a threat but providing an opportunity. This is a real chance for your Members of Parliament to revitalise and renew their relationships with the people who send them to Westminster and for whom they ultimately work, their voters.

“We are going to have a few days off and then plan the next stages of the campaign both here in Thurrock as we analyse the result and nationally for the next 11 People’s Pledge referendums.”

“Finally, I’d like to thank the whole People’s Pledge team for a fantastic effort and this great result. Much more importantly, I’d like to thank the people of Thurrock for responding so magnificently. Thurrock, with this first important step, you are now leading the way to a national referendum for the rest of us.”
 
WookieD said:
I've got tons mate. I should probably qualify that though to mean mostly younger people. I remember to a man watching mates of mine blaze through their paychecks in the first week and be skint for the rest of the month. A lot of them still do. Maybe everyone I know is a bit of a plank, who knows. But it's a good indicator.

I'm not saying that people close to the breadline are less disciplined. What I actually mean is, most people, full stop are indisciplined with money. And it is people who are struggling that it would immediately affect. Look at how we got ourselves into a position of ?ú3trillion personal debt in the UK... You think the average man is good with their finances? More fool you.

And that isn't a political belief, it's just observtion.
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I'll bet you have. Fair cop. But where are the criticsms of the big end of town? Of the corporate tax evaders and rip off merchants? Where are the criticisms of the corporate polluters and environmental vandals? Where are the criticisms of the asset stippers and employment exporters? No it's much easier to have a go at those at the bottom of the pile, the single mothers and the unemployed, because of course they are all scroungers.
I'm a socialists and am an ardent critic of business, but I could never be accused of basing my political beliefs on prejudice. Some on here revel in it, after all they KNOW that it was a unionist who killed Bambi. BTW the international energy crisis put most of the western world in difficulty in the mid to late seventies, it wasnt just Britain.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
I'll bet you have. Fair cop. But where are the criticsms of the big end of town? Of the corporate tax evaders and rip off merchants? Where are the criticisms of the corporate polluters and environmental vandals? Where are the criticisms of the asset stippers and employment exporters? No it's much easier to have a go at those at the bottom of the pile, the single mothers and the unemployed, because of course they are all scroungers.
I'm a socialists and am an ardent critic of business, but I could never be accused of basing my political beliefs on prejudice. Some on here revel in it, after all they KNOW that it was a unionist who killed Bambi. BTW the international energy crisis put most of the western world in difficulty in the mid to late seventies, it wasnt just Britain.
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So you're anti-business. What your alternative? Everything to be owned, controlled and created by the Government? How do you stand on internationalism? Should we close our borders and try and be self sufficient only?
 
I have NEVER stated that I am anti-business... that is your statement, don't put words into my mouth. I support a mixed economy. There has to be a role for international arbitration, if the planet is to have any future. Little Englanders are living in the dark ages. Like it or not, the 21st century is about being in trading blocs. Being out of the EEC would completely isolate Britain economically. Britain really has no choice.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I have NEVER stated that I am anti-business... that is your statement, don't put words into my mouth. I support a mixed economy. There has to be a role for international arbitration, if the planet is to have any future. Little Englanders are living in the dark ages. Like it or not, the 21st century is about being in trading blocs. Being out of the EEC would completely isolate Britain economically. Britain really has no choice.
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Does the country have to turn a profit, e.g. export more than it imports, to be a success?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I have NEVER stated that I am anti-business... that is your statement, don't put words into my mouth. I support a mixed economy. There has to be a role for international arbitration, if the planet is to have any future. Little Englanders are living in the dark ages. Like it or not, the 21st century is about being in trading blocs. Being out of the EEC would completely isolate Britain economically. Britain really has no choice.
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Yeah try telling Switzerland being isolated means decline.

Utter gonads, as is the communist doctrine you talk, IMO.

That isn't hyperbole, look at what you describe, the only way to have those things is NOT to engage with the international community but retreat into an isolationist cocoon.

We are mearly being blown by the global economy and we cannot dictate terms.

People at the top PAY for people at the bottom, as they should.

If either party is deserving on comtempt it certainly isn't those at the top end of town.

The top 10% pay more than half of all taxes.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
OK, well how do you define economic success? How would you ensure the country was kept wealthy if we had a negative trade balance?
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One way is to develop education, so that Britain has a smarter workforce. Of course industry has to innovate, it has to develop new ideas, and guess what, that means boosting universities to conduct research. I know you oppose that because you are anti academic. Ha, ha. Britain dominated the world largely because it lead the industrial revolution, it innovated and it will need to do it again.
 
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One measure by which I would define success, would be where every person could have equality of opportunity. An economy where no segment of the nation would be left behind, an economy where development lead to real benefits for all who wish to participate in in it.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
One way is to develop education, so that Britain has a smarter workforce. Of course industry has to innovate, it has to develop new ideas, and guess what, that means boosting universities to conduct research. I know you oppose that because you are anti academic. Ha, ha. Britain dominated the world largely because it lead the indutrial revolution, it innovated and it will need to do it again.
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That's a cop out answer. People are limited. It's intelligence that drives, not education. I think half the problem with the UK now is people have been fooled by the notion of careers and education. Too many people now think because they went to Uni they are "too good" to start from the bottom, or "too educated" to do certain jobs. But a fully functioning society needs all from its people, but so called educated people rarely put anyone but themselves first.
 
Leeds Spur said:
Yeah try telling Switzerland being isolated means decline.

Utter gonads, as is the communist doctrine you talk, IMO.

That isn't hyperbole, look at what you describe, the only way to have those things is NOT to engage with the international community but retreat into an isolationist cocoon.




We are mearly being blown by the global economy and we cannot dictate terms.

People at the top PAY for people at the bottom, as they should.

If either party is deserving on comtempt it certainly isn't those at the top end of town.

The top 10% pay more than half of all taxes.
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Do you have literacy issues? I clearly stated that I supported a mixed economy, so how does that make me a communist? As for the rest of your right wing rant, I could not make sufficient sense of it to reply!
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
That's a cop out answer. People are limited. It's intelligence that drives, not education. I think half the problem with the UK now is people have been fooled by the notion of careers and education. Too many people now think because they went to Uni they are "too good" to start from the bottom, or "too educated" to do certain jobs. But a fully functioning society needs all from its people, but so called educated people rarely put anyone but themselves first.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder regarding education.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
One measure by which I would define success, would be where every person could have equality of opportunity. An economy where no segment of the nation would be left behind, an economy where development lead to real benefits for all who wish to participate in in it.
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That will never happen. We are not equal. Never have been, never will be. Not in ability, nor life circumstance. And I believe in evolution, so this is something I believe in :

The intelligent will often be successful. They'll be drawn to other intelligent mates and breed. Their offspring will usually be intelligent and successful. They will always have an advantage, just as nature intended.

There is no such thing as "fair" in life. Life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be. Fairness is a man made notion to give those without hope the illusion of hope.

However, to contradict the above people can break out. Whilst it's obvious to say that most opportunities in life are presented to us, everyone has the chance to go out there and put themselves in a situation where they may be presented with opportunites. Some people won't be lucky, but you can make your own luck. The first thing people need to understand and accept is their station in life. Aspiring to be better is one thing, but aspiring to be something you aren't capable of is no good to anyone.

Education and even knowledge doesn't equate to intelligence or being successful. Sooner we realise this, the better. Admittedly I work in I.T. which is a fairly new industry, but it's quite telling to me that there are more successful people in my industry WITHOUT a university education than with one. And surprisingly those without the Uni education also tend to be of a higher quality in terms of work ethic, delivery speed and ability to think outside of the box from my experience.
 
I'm seeing an awful lot of recent incompetence with this government - perhaps the cracks of 'coalition' are starting to form. It's hardly surprising, as it's an arranged marriage which neither actually want. Were there a credible Labour alternative, this sham would be torn to shreds right now.

Theresa May is the brickest Home Sec this country has had for generations; already been embroiled in at least a couple of position-threatening scandals. Francis Maude - dingdonghead extraordinaire who dishes out illegal advice, and does fudge all else with his time. A chancellor who likes to make bold, brash claims of growth - yet quietly whispers the truth that he's fudging miles off. I'm coming to see Cameron as just another Blair: great orator, great with the banter, but that's about it. I actually thought he'd be a stronger, more inspiring PM - but he's failed in my expectations. Clegg is just Clegg; this is his day out, the Lib-Dems Cup Final - then never to be seen again for 50 years.

Seriously, the latest ****-up is this proposed reform to digital privacy. Yet again, it's Theresa fudging May holding the incompetent baton - announces the plans, then there is an embarrassing, humiliating U-turn mere days later, when the blaring fudging obvious hits them in the face. Christ, who the fudge is 'advising' these stupid ****s? Honestly, it's like watching the Muppet Show.

Y'know what, if Labour got their house in order - and I reckon Chuka Umunna is the best person to bring the people with him - then they'll tinkle all over the Tories at the next election. Absolutely tinkle on them they will. I don't have any great political leaning, I just know brick leadership when I see it. Brown and his bunch didn't have a fudging clue, and neither do these ****s who are in charge. When you can't even get the basics right, it doesn't inspire confidence in them being able to tackle anything remotely difficult.
 
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