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Berbatov

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Nayim / Indian

During the PL era (since '92) he has always bought his strikers - i.e. virtually none have been academy products until Welbeck now. Odd considering the numerous quality players they have blooded through the decades. Simply an observation I made recently, that is all. No agenda.
 
ArcspacE said:
Some pedal a story where he's been some kind of flop or failure

He contributed around 16 points to their PL campaign alone last year with winning goals.

Look at Hernandez - top dog last season -> bench to Welbeck this year for whatever reason. Keeping 4 top strikers isn't easy. We have 2 and the one is always moaning.

The only guaranteed striker in that team is Rooney.
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By means of his contribution (particularly as you say, considering his status) he has been far from a flop.

But, by means of his failure to establish himself in the side, being omitted from the big games and basically being a ?ú30m reserve I think it would be near impossible to try and justify him being a success.

Depends which angle you are coming from, but I suspect many that you disagree with simply arent talking about the same thing. You need to compare apples with apples, not apples with pears...
 
ArcspacE said:
Nayim / Indian

During the PL era (since '92) he has always bought his strikers - i.e. virtually none have been academy products until Welbeck now. Odd considering the numerous quality players they have blooded through the decades. Simply an observation I made recently, that is all. No agenda.
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No agenda accused Arc, either you wrote your point badly or I read it badly is all - litterally didnt understand what you were saying.

Its a fair observation. Though I would expand upon that to ask - how many top home gr4own strikers have come through any club in that era?

Owen and Fowler at Liverpool, Collymore at Forrest? Seriously Im struggling...
 
ArcspacE said:
Nayim / Indian

During the PL era (since '92) he has always bought his strikers - i.e. virtually none have been academy products until Welbeck now. Odd considering the numerous quality players they have blooded through the decades. Simply an observation I made recently, that is all. No agenda.
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i get that but in your list you had Mark Hughes who was pre 92, just a slight technical fault i noticed, but as football did exist before 92 then your point still stands

good observation
 
Nayim

If we had a player with his return in our team (1 in 2 in the PL)- he'd be lauded as a general success irrespective which way you want to spin it.

Utd fans never warmed up to him and his body language. Media did its fair bit too. Considering all the circumstances his return is more than respectable. He's never been a prolific goal scorer but a clinical player who adds tremendous lot to the final 3rd and attacking play in general. Only people who don't watch full games would argue otherwise. How many Utd full games have you watched in the last 3 years?
 
ArcspacE said:
If we had a player with his return in our team (1 in 2 in the PL)- he'd be lauded as a general success irrespective which way you want to spin it.

Utd fans never warmed up to him and his body language. Media did he fair bit too. Considering all the circumstances his return is more than respectable. He's never been a prolific goal scorer but a clinical player who adds tremendous lot to the final 3rd and attacking play in general. Only people who don't watch full games would argue otherwise. How many Utd full games have you watched in the last 3 years?
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Im not spinning anything, and you arent telling me anything I dont already know.

I watched Berbatov play for two seasons at the club I love, I think I know what he offers.

As to Utd games, over the last 3 years? Maybe 30? Not that its at all relevant.

You seem very keen to use statistics to prove any point you want to make, but they lack context and the criteria of a view/argument.

Could I base Berbatovs success factor on his goal return? Yes, and on this basis its thumbs up.
What if I based it upon the number of starts he gets? (Indicative of being integral to the team)....

All Im saying is people have different criteria to define things, stats dont make them 'wrong'
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not spinning anything, and you arent telling me anything I dont already know.

I watched Berbatov play for two seasons at the club I love, I think I know what he offers.

As to Utd games, over the last 3 years? Maybe 30? Not that its at all relevant.

You seem very keen to use statistics to prove any point you want to make, but they lack context and the criteria of a view/argument.

Could I base Berbatovs success factor on his goal return? Yes, and on this basis its thumbs up.
What if I based it upon the number of starts he gets? (Indicative of being integral to the team)....

All Im saying is people have different criteria to define things, stats dont make them 'wrong'
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I think during the last 4 yers you'd discover only Rooney has been a solid regular.

Tevez, Berbatov, Hernandez, Owen now Welbeck have all 'chipped in'

So having a return as his being a squad player is even more impressive, imv
 
I think they came up eventually - not sure

Didn't Keane start off in Italy? or was it Wolves

Phillips has done really well to prolong his carrer with respectable success
 
ArcspacE said:
I think during the last 4 yers you'd discover only Rooney has been a solid regular.

Tevez, Berbatov, Hernandez, Owen now Welbeck have all 'chipped in'

So having a return as his being a squad player is even more impressive, imv
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Now who is spinning? :D

Without being in full possession of the stats, I would suggest Tevez and Hernandez were far more prominent first teamers than Berbatov.

Utd played Tevez almost every game, and whenever I see them these last couple of seasons its predominantly Hernandez starting and not Berbatov.

Once again, I agree fully his return is impressive - particularly for a squad player - but equally that he is 'just' a squad player might suggest to some he hasnt been a raging success.....
 
Keane started at Wolves who were not in the Prem at the time. Ian Wright began his career at non league level. Collymore didnt start out at Forest
 
Tevez was a squad player the season Berbatov arrived - i.e. became what Berbatov was when Hernandez arrived. I followed that season very closely for obvious reasons.

He was also dropped to the bench after scoring 4 in a CC game few days prior even when Berba was doing 'ok'. Left at the end of the season because he knew they couldn't gurantee him regular football. Recorded many times. Only Rooney can do that.

Hernandez only started being a regular after Christmas

No time to check starts now but their input has been comparable in terms of appearances
 
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ArcspacE said:
Nayim

If we had a player with his return in our team (1 in 2 in the PL)- he'd be lauded as a general success irrespective which way you want to spin it.

Utd fans never warmed up to him and his body language. Media did its fair bit too. Considering all the circumstances his return is more than respectable. He's never been a prolific goal scorer but a clinical player who adds tremendous lot to the final 3rd and attacking play in general. Only people who don't watch full games would argue otherwise. How many Utd full games have you watched in the last 3 years?
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good post, agree with all
 
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