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Bender

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billyiddo said:
Both Schneiderlin and Wanyama are CMs who when played together shared responsibilities, both defensively and offensively. From what I saw anyway
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Well in that case we might as well get rid of Mason and Bentaleb - they seem to have no idea what sharing defensive responsibilities means...
 
billyiddo said:
You seem to be contradicting yourself with your posts in this thread mate - maybe I'm reading wrong but on one hand you're saying you don't want a DM but then on the other your saying you'd happily take a player who displays all the characteristics of a DM even if he isn't particularly good in the other parts of the game we would require from a CM, and seemingly agreeing with MFs posts which suggests deploying this type of player in a role where his only duties are to protect the back four and break up play (ie a DM) which in my mind would then having us complaining further down the line that he isn't good enough on the ball for how we want to play and off we go to find a player more suited...

We need a CM who's good enough defensively and on the ball - we aren't limited to buying players who are only good in one of these areas, so why are we talking about making do?
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Below is a post I made a while ago about this problem, it seems some are getting tied down with boxes and how players fit into them which in most cases are a stretch to say the least. I hope this clears it up better. I want a player who has a defensive mind set and at the moment we do not have one.

(We can call it anything you want, but we need a CM player who has a defensive mind set ( that does not mean he has to sit in the centre circle), we need someone who is aware of opposing players getting in behind them, who can spot runners and do not ball watch all the time. At the moment neither Mason or Bentaleb have that ability and that is one of the main reasons our CM was so open last year.

Now we can call it a DM, a CM, a deep laying player, a B2B, call him uncle tom cobbly but we need a player who has those strengths, lets not get hung up on what we call him.)
 
parklane1 said:
Below is a post I made a while ago about this problem, it seems some are getting tied down with boxes and how players fit into them which in most cases are a stretch to say the least. I hope this clears it up better. I want a player who has a defensive mind set and at the moment we do not have one.

(We can call it anything you want, but we need a CM player who has a defensive mind set ( that does not mean he has to sit in the centre circle), we need someone who is aware of opposing players getting in behind them, who can spot runners and do not ball watch all the time. At the moment neither Mason or Bentaleb have that ability and that is one of the main reasons our CM was so open last year.

Now we can call it a DM, a CM, a deep laying player, a B2B, call him uncle tom cobbly but we need a player who has those strengths, lets not get hung up on what we call him.)
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Do you think that we would still need this if the whole team was comfortable closing down as a unit?
 
Maltese Falcon said:
Well in that case we might as well get rid of Mason and Bentaleb - they seem to have no idea what sharing defensive responsibilities means...
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I get that they are not as strong yet as the central midfield pairings of the teams that finished above us last season but how many of the teams below us have a better central midfield?
 
milo said:
Do you think that we would still need this if the whole team was comfortable closing down as a unit?
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YES

Every Mourinho team was outstandingly comfortable closing down as a unit; but each one of them had and has an enforcer. Indeed, it was almost the most important position in the team.

But then, what does probably the most tactically astute coach of the past decade know??
 
milo said:
I get that they are not as strong yet as the central midfield pairings of the teams that finished above us last season but how many of the teams below us have a better central midfield?
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I sort of thought our goal was to compete for top 4...
 
milo said:
Isn't it just as inflexible to insist that we need a DM?

Poch picked passers over more defensively minded players last season. I'm sure that he'd be happy with a more defensive midfielder if they are good on the ball. Failing that, I think that he will pick passers over enforcers because it fits our game plan better.
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Just for the record I detest debating with you Milo anyway....

My idea of us being inflexible is clearly not having a variety of options in our central midfield..in my ideal world we would have options depending on the opposition... now in cm I would like us to have a box to box player...Mason, Dembele & Alli....check. A passer, tempo setter, conductor if you will....Bentaleb & Carrol....check, A no 10 Eriksen, Dembele...check, But when it comes to snuffing out an opponents more technically gifted midfield we have no enforcer/ anchor type player...we badly need one, not having an acomplished DM in your squad is asking for trouble.

Its one of the reasons that will also keep stopping the woolwich lot winning major titles...anyway dont want to talk about them.

Poch dealt with the hand he was given last season but now is the time for him to build HIS squad to show us HIS vision...by and large we have cleared the decks so I await with baited breath this midfield signing.

If we rigidly stick to the same style all season we will not achieve anyone of note. I would say the next cm signing is absoluteness essential we get it right.
 
milo said:
Do you think that we would still need this if the whole team was comfortable closing down as a unit?
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Yes I do, one because not every player has a defensive mind set ( tracking runners, closing down space, not letting players run in behind you etc) and two its not very often you will get all 10 outfield players in the right place to close the spaces down.

As I keep saying I am not asking for a player who will do nothing but sit on the half way line, just one who can do all the above and not ball watch. There is no reason he can not also carry the ball forward when needed.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
YES

Every Mourinho team was outstandingly comfortable closing down as a unit; but each one of them had and has an enforcer. Indeed, it was almost the most important position in the team.

But then, what does probably the most tactically astute coach of the past decade know??
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I think that our manager wants us to be more positive than most Mourinho teams
 
parklane1 said:
Below is a post I made a while ago about this problem, it seems some are getting tied down with boxes and how players fit into them which in most cases are a stretch to say the least. I hope this clears it up better. I want a player who has a defensive mind set and at the moment we do not have one.

(We can call it anything you want, but we need a CM player who has a defensive mind set ( that does not mean he has to sit in the centre circle), we need someone who is aware of opposing players getting in behind them, who can spot runners and do not ball watch all the time. At the moment neither Mason or Bentaleb have that ability and that is one of the main reasons our CM was so open last year.

Now we can call it a DM, a CM, a deep laying player, a B2B, call him uncle tom cobbly but we need a player who has those strengths, lets not get hung up on what we call him.)
Click to expand...

As has been said many times before: we all want a player who is better defensively than what we currently have - we all seem to be in agreement there, the issue is that you seem happy to sacrifice the other parts of his game just to make sure we get someone defensive in, whilst those of us disagreeing with you want someone more rounded so they can contribute in both defence and in possession/attack (As that appears to be how we think the manager wants to play - square pegs square holes and all that)
 
I think we do need an enforcer type, the top teams always seem to have one. Pressing is all well and good, but against the top teams you need more than that - someone who will do the dirty work, be a bit nasty if needs must.....
 
parklane1 said:
Yes I do, one because not every player has a defensive mind set ( tracking runners, closing down space, not letting players run in behind you etc) and two its not very often you will get all 10 outfield players in the right place to close the spaces down.

As I keep saying I am not asking for a player who will do nothing but sit on the half way line, just one who can do all the above and not ball watch. There is no reason he can not also carry the ball forward when needed.
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Good job, we've got five CBs who can do that
;)
 
billyiddo said:
As has been said many times before: we all want a player who is better defensively than what we currently have - we all seem to be in agreement there, the issue is that you seem happy to sacrifice the other parts of his game just to make sure we get someone defensive in, whilst those of us disagreeing with you want someone more rounded so they can contribute in both defence and in possession/attack
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You are not getting it are you :) no where have I said I want a player who does nothing but sit on the half way line. We seem to be at a impasse either I am not explaining myself well or you are failing to understand what I have written. Maybe if we meet up at the Lane one day I will try and explain it better ( slowly). ;)
 
milo said:
Do you think that we would still need this if the whole team was comfortable closing down as a unit?
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yes I would...we can not fanatically press teams for 90 mins all season long.

Games ebb and flow, rarely does one team dominate for 90 mins.....when the chips are down we need a nasty mofo in our cm area to say....

'fudge this lads, Im not having this'

Bender I put in this mould.
 
Nigeyman said:
Just for the record I detest debating with you Milo anyway....

My idea of us being inflexible is clearly not having a variety of options in our central midfield..in my ideal world we would have options depending on the opposition... now in cm I would like us to have a box to box player...Mason, Dembele & Alli....check. A passer, tempo setter, conductor if you will....Bentaleb & Carrol....check, A no 10 Eriksen, Dembele...check, But when it comes to snuffing out an opponents more technically gifted midfield we have no enforcer/ anchor type player...we badly need one, not having an acomplished DM in your squad is asking for trouble.

Its one of the reasons that will also keep stopping the woolwich lot winning major titles...anyway dont want to talk about them.

Poch dealt with the hand he was given last season but now is the time for him to build HIS squad to show us HIS vision...by and large we have cleared the decks so I await with baited breath this midfield signing.

If we rigidly stick to the same style all season we will not achieve anyone of note. I would say the next cm signing is absoluteness essential we get it right.
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I'm sorry to hear that :(

I'm all for having options in the squad but I think that they all need to be comfortable with our A game. As Billy says a more defensively minded CM would be great as long as it is not at a detriment to our passing/possession game.
 
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