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Bender

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E3zzle said:
They'll never sell him. They've already sold Schneidelin. Why can't we just try to sign the players we want, and if we fail, we move on. What are we waiting for? Why would clubs drop the price of their first team players just because the tw is about to shut.
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Transfers don't happen in a vacuum there can sometimes be 4 or 5 things that need to happen before a team will let a player go. Other than putting stupid money on the table I believe we are doing everything possible to get players in as quickly as possible it just doesn't work out that often.We are aiming high but failing mostly and yes like everybody else I am waiting for that inspired signing .
 
jabbathehut said:
Transfers don't happen in a vacuum there can sometimes be 4 or 5 things that need to happen before a team will let a player go. Other than putting stupid money on the table I believe we are doing everything possible to get players in as quickly as possible it just doesn't work out that often.We are aiming high but failing mostly and yes like everybody else I am waiting for that inspired signing .
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Can you name some of these things? Unless the club wants to sell the player putting more (or stupid) money on the table is the only thing that will convince them to sell. So I'd really like to know what alternative methods to actually paying up we are using.
 
Cochise said:
I'd say in this situation (our need for a DM), the only players that will upgrade us already have reason's to stay at their respective clubs. Players like Illaramendi and Kramer might leave but only if we can convince them and things don't workout where they are (Leverkusen missing out on Champs League, Illaramendi falling to 4th choice at Real). They also know that they could go elsewhere so they wait to see what their options are before making a decision. If we are still there then it will be us, but if we move on and pick up a lesser player purely because we can integrate them quicker then we miss out.
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You're talking about convincing the players to join us. I was talking about convincing the clubs to sell.
 
E3zzle said:
You're talking about convincing the players to join us. I was talking about convincing the clubs to sell.
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Both player and club would likely hold out at least another week, even if we offered them something now that they'd accept.

Look at the wages and fees City had to fork out when they started putting together their side.
 
Jordinho said:
Both player and club would likely hold out at least another week, even if we offered them something now that they'd accept.

Look at the wages and fees City had to fork out when they started putting together their side.
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I guess there is some truth to this, but with this logic no transfers would happen until deadline day unless there was a ridiculus sum involved. If we can't get these players now, i doubt we can get them in two weeks. And meanwhile more realistic targets at picked up by smaller clubs. I'm worried we'll end up with Barton...
 
E3zzle said:
I guess there is some truth to this, but with this logic no transfers would happen until deadline day unless there was a ridiculus sum involved. If we can't get these players now, i doubt we can get them in two weeks. And meanwhile more realistic targets at picked up by smaller clubs. I'm worried we'll end up with Barton...
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It might be that if we can't get any of these top targets we'd rather stick with what we have and try again next year.

As for Barton, I'm just worried he won't have to retire. Looks like Forest might be interested.
 
Jordinho said:
It might be that if we can't get any of these top targets we'd rather stick with what we have and try again next year.

As for Barton, I'm just worried he won't have to retire. Looks like Forest might be interested.
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Which will probably see us finishing out of the top 6...
 
Jordinho said:
Good enough for 5th last season. For CM it really should be a first choice player that is better than anyone we have or none at all. Our goal is to get one of Illaramendi, Sven Bender and Kramer according to ITK.
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We've already sold three of the players that played there for us last season, and currently have no depht whatsoever. I might have excaggerated a bit, but I can't see us having any chance of finishing above Liverpool.
 
E3zzle said:
We've already sold three of the players that played there for us last season, and currently have no depht whatsoever. I might have excaggerated a bit, but I can't see us having any chance of finishing above Liverpool.
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How much do you think Paulinho, Capoue and Stambouli contributed last season and would it amount to more that Dier, Alli and Carroll could this?
 
Lets be honest, Capoue contributed very little because he rarely got anyhere near the squad after October-ish. Paulinho and Stambouli both played games and tbh I think Stambouli's contribution shouldn't be completely overlooked given the games he played whilst Bentaleb was away at the AFCON. Dier and Alli will contribute just as much imo, but I don't know if Carroll will get that many games.
 
E3zzle said:
They'll never sell him. They've already sold Schneidelin. Why can't we just try to sign the players we want, and if we fail, we move on. What are we waiting for? Why would clubs drop the price of their first team players just because the tw is about to shut.
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How do you know that we haven't done exactly that? Not all clubs make bids public.
 
milo said:
How much do you think Paulinho, Capoue and Stambouli contributed last season and would it amount to more that Dier, Alli and Carroll could this?
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They started 19 league games combined and featured in 39. I don't see Dier as a midfielder. Alli is an exciting prospect, but doesn't offer a lot defensively. Neither does Carrol, who was only played as a number 10 in preseason. If Poch was happy with our midfield options, I don't think we would be chasing these players. He obviously thinks we need a dm, and so do I.
 
E3zzle said:
I can't be sure, obviously. But we waited until now to make a bid for Berahino, so there's reason to fear that we haven't made bid for any of the germans.
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You haven't really answered the question. We all know that they started games but what was the value of their contribution?

It doesn't matter whether you consider Dier a midfielder or not. He is playing there and the question in relation to this is, is he playing significantly worse there than the three who've left did last year. I suspect that you would be in a minority of one on this board if you think that he is.

You are right that Carroll has played further forward for us in pre-season but he did play at the base of midfield for Swansea last year and won a player of the month award for his performances in that position.

I agree that Alli is untested but is untested promise worse than proven mediocrity?

I know that I have asked a lot of questions here but I am going to finish with one more. Do you really think that our prospects would be better this season if we had held onto Capoue, Paulinho and Stambouli and sent Carroll, Dier and Alli out on loan?
 
milo said:
You haven't really answered the question. We all know that they started games but what was the value of their contribution?

It doesn't matter whether you consider Dier a midfielder or not. He is playing there and the question in relation to this is, is he playing significantly worse there than the three who've left did last year. I suspect that you would be in a minority of one on this board if you think that he is.

You are right that Carroll has played further forward for us in pre-season but he did play at the base of midfield for Swansea last year and won a player of the month award for his performances in that position.

I agree that Alli is untested but is untested promise worse than proven mediocrity?

I know that I have asked a lot of questions here but I am going to finish with one more. Do you really think that our prospects would be better this season if we had held onto Capoue, Paulinho and Stambouli and sent Carroll, Dier and Alli out on loan?
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It's very hard to measure the value of their contribution, but I for one think Capoue was one of our best players at the start of last season. Yes, I think he played better than Dier has in the first games.

The problem is more in the depht than in the quality or talent. Our midfield options are very unbalanced in terms of experience and defensive capabilities. I think Alli will become a much better player than Capoue and Stambouli, but probably not this season. More importantly however, he's a totally different player. You might say we've replaced three defensive midfielders with three attacking ones. Hence we're playing a centre back as dm.

I'm not unhappy with the players we've got, but our midfield cries out for a more defensive minded, and experienced midfielder.
 
milo said:
You haven't really answered the question. We all know that they started games but what was the value of their contribution?

It doesn't matter whether you consider Dier a midfielder or not. He is playing there and the question in relation to this is, is he playing significantly worse there than the three who've left did last year. I suspect that you would be in a minority of one on this board if you think that he is.

You are right that Carroll has played further forward for us in pre-season but he did play at the base of midfield for Swansea last year and won a player of the month award for his performances in that position.

I agree that Alli is untested but is untested promise worse than proven mediocrity?

I know that I have asked a lot of questions here but I am going to finish with one more. Do you really think that our prospects would be better this season if we had held onto Capoue, Paulinho and Stambouli and sent Carroll, Dier and Alli out on loan?
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Let me just add that I think we need to be a lot better than we were last season if we are to keep Liverpool behind us. A lot of the mid table teams have strengthened a lot more than we hage, and one of them could really surprise.
 
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