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Robspur12 said:
I am furious however, that we have had to play Dier in midfield for the first game of the season against one of the best sides in Europe, like it was some experimental pre season game. It's simply not good enough from the team that are responsible for sorting out the transfers. I guess we will have to put up with more of the same against Stoke next week.
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Still, our defensive game was solid. So maybe there's no need to be furious. If we were a shambles and let in 3-4 goals, I'd understand, but that wasn't the case. And the mistake that led to their goal was from the one half of the double pivot that is supposedly the one we're already set with.
 
Robspur12 said:
I am furious however, that we have had to play Dier in midfield for the first game of the season against one of the best sides in Europe, like it was some experimental pre season game. It's simply not good enough from the team that are responsible for sorting out the transfers. I guess we will have to put up with more of the same against Stoke next week.
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Playing young central defenders is sometimes done to negate attacking threat. We used to do it with Ledley, England did it with Ledley, and Mourinho did it last season with Zouma. I don't think it is that extraordinary. I didn't think we looked bad defensively so Dier must have played some part in that? It was one sloppy pass that made us lose the game. Eriksen's attempt early was key, and yes, I would have liked us to create far more chances, but this is Man United away we are talking about. A Man United team coached by one of the most tactically astute and successful managers of recent times and who have spent a shed load of money this transfer window.
 
alekaras said:
Still, our defensive game was solid. So maybe there's no need to be furious. If we were a shambles and let in 3-4 goals, I'd understand, but that wasn't the case. And the mistake that led to their goal was from the one half of the double pivot that is supposedly the one we're already set with.
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Man Utd played with 3 defensive midfielders and 1 up front. They wanted to grind out a result today. I am sure we will get more attacking tests in the coming weeks it is too early to say we were defensively solid. My point in the bentaleb thread was that we had an inexperienced midfield double pivot. We need some experience in there especially against the top sides. Experience we are currently lacking and that means the expectations of our youngsters is too much.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Playing young central defenders is sometimes done to negate attacking threat. We used to do it with Ledley, England did it with Ledley, and Mourinho did it last season with Zouma. I don't think it is that extraordinary. I didn't think we looked bad defensively so Dier must have played some part in that? It was one sloppy pass that made us lose the game. Eriksen's attempt early was key, and yes, I would have liked us to create far more chances, but this is Man United away we are talking about. A Man United team coached by one of the most tactically astute and successful managers of recent times and who have spent a shed load of money this transfer window.
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Imo we should not be playing two young relatively inexperienced midfielders together if we want to do well this season.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Mate I am thinking of top 6 rather than top 4!
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Well in which case I think we can do that with our midfield as last year has shown. I respect your opinion but disagree on the basis that it has only been one game, we played one of top 4 hardest fixtures of the season, our midfield more than stood up to some high class defensive midfielders (one error notwithstanding) and it was against a side who have spent more money this transfer window net than we have for a number of transfer windows.

In these games it is the fine margins that count, and we just lost out because of one error. But in some ways it is nice that we are all disappointed at not beating Man United away!!
 
Robspur12 said:
Man Utd played with 3 defensive midfielders and 1 up front. They wanted to grind out a result today. I am sure we will get more attacking tests in the coming weeks it is too early to say we were defensively solid. My point in the bentaleb thread was that we had an inexperienced midfield double pivot. We need some experience in there especially against the top sides. Experience we are currently lacking and that means the expectations of our youngsters is too much.
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Agreed.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Well in which case I think we can do that with our midfield as last year has shown. I respect your opinion but disagree on the basis that it has only been one game, we played one of top 4 hardest fixtures of the season, our midfield more than stood up to some high class defensive midfielders (one error notwithstanding) and it was against a side who have spent more money this transfer window net than we have for a number of transfer windows.

In these games it is the fine margins that count, and we just lost out because of one error. But in some ways it is nice that we are all disappointed at not beating Man United away!!
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Man Utd played with 3 defensive midfielders today and 1 up front. Our defensive midfielders will face bigger challenges. You mentioned zouma playing for Chelsea last season, of course throughout a season any team could find itself in a position through injuries and suspensions where you have to play someone in an unfamiliar role. But my point is this is in the middle of the transfer window and Dier is only playing in midfield because we have not brought in the defensive midfielder we have been crying out for. I'm not sure that because we only conceded 1 goal today we can conclude that we are now solid in defence.
 
Robspur12 said:
Man Utd played with 3 defensive midfielders today and 1 up front. Our defensive midfielders will face bigger challenges. You mentioned zouma playing for Chel53a last season, of course throughout a season any team could find itself in a position through injuries and suspensions where you have to play someone in an unfamiliar role. But my point is this is in the middle of the transfer window and Dier is only playing in midfield because we have not brought in the defensive midfielder we have been crying out for. I'm not sure that because we only conceded 1 goal today we can conclude that we are now solid in defence.
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With regards to Zouma, I actually think he was played not because of injuries or suspensions but as a tactical change from Mourinho to counteract Fellaini. I do think we looked far more defensively assured than we have usually looked. Whether that is because of Dier, or Alderweireld or a rejuvenated Walker I don't know.

It's not just on the conceding one goal that I feel we are more solid in defence. It's limiting them to 1 shot on target, having 50% of the possession, having more shots on target than them, same amount of shots and generally not looking like conceding from all of the attacking talent that they had on show. I do agree with you that it would have been better to have done all of our trading by now, but we haven't and the team has not been thrashed. A lot of people would have taken a draw from this game. We were not very far from that at all.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
With regards to Zouma, I actually think he was played not because of injuries or suspensions but as a tactical change from Mourinho to counteract Fellaini. I do think we looked far more defensively assured than we have usually looked. Whether that is because of Dier, or Alderweireld or a rejuvenated Walker I don't know.

It's not just on the conceding one goal that I feel we are more solid in defence. It's limiting them to 1 shot on target, having 50% of the possession, having more shots on target than them, same amount of shots and generally not looking like conceding from all of the attacking talent that they had on show. I do agree with you that it would have been better to have done all of our trading by now, but we haven't and the team has not been thrashed. A lot of people would have taken a draw from this game. We were not very far from that at all.
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Agreed; No disgrace in today's performance or result.
Things will feel FAR worse if we lose next week at home to Stoke though...
 
galeforce said:
not a ****ing chance sadly

how about reworking the song surrender by cheap trick
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45-Elvis-ReturnToSender-1.jpg
 
Robspur12 said:
I am furious however, that we have had to play Dier in midfield for the first game of the season against one of the best sides in Europe, like it was some experimental pre season game. It's simply not good enough from the team that are responsible for sorting out the transfers. I guess we will have to put up with more of the same against Stoke next week.
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I understand where you are coming from to a point, Dier ( considering it was his first big game there) did well and unless we get a upgrade over the next couple of weeks should be given more games( he is a better fit then Mason for that position). We looked a lot stronger in CM then we have for long while and Dier was a big help in that. If it had not been for Bentaleb giving the ball away like he did we would have got the point we deserved.
 
parklane1 said:
I understand where you are coming from to a point, Dier ( considering it was his first big game there) did well and unless we get a upgrade over the next couple of weeks should be given more games( he is a better fit then Mason for that position). We looked a lot stronger in CM then we have for long while and Dier was a big help in that. If it had not been for Bentaleb giving the ball away like he did we would have got the point we deserved.
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I agree Dier had a good game but I maintain playing with 3 defensive midfielders would suggest to me that Utd's game plan was not to lose and to grind out a win which they achieved. We simply cannot rely on Dier playing in central midfield for many games against sides that will play with more attacking intent. King and zouma did not stay in central midfield but were stop gaps after which they returned to their favoured positions. I can't help but feel if we had had an experienced head in midfield today, they would have seen that bentaleb was off his game and tried to deal with it before he made the mistake that led to the goal. I might not be popular for saying this but the blame for today's result lies with those who should have addressed the obvious weaknesses in our team, rather than force Poch to start the season having to use stop gaps. I dread the Stoke game, it could be brutal.
 
Robspur12 said:
I agree Dier had a good game but I maintain playing with 3 defensive midfielders would suggest to me that Utd's game plan was not to lose and to grind out a win which they achieved. We simply cannot rely on Dier playing in central midfield for many games against sides that will play with more attacking intent. King and zouma did not stay in central midfield but were stop gaps after which they returned to their favoured positions. I might not be popular for saying this but the blame for today's result lies with those who should have addressed the obvious weaknesses in our tea, rather than let Poch start the season having to use stop gaps. I dread the Stoke game, it could be brutal.
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At the moment Dier is the best we have for that position and should remain there, but I agree we need to up grade there and until we can find someone who fits the bill he should stay, lets face it there are many here who think Mason and Betaleb are our best pairing so its not that clear cut.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
With regards to Zouma, I actually think he was played not because of injuries or suspensions but as a tactical change from Mourinho to counteract Fellaini. I do think we looked far more defensively assured than we have usually looked. Whether that is because of Dier, or Alderweireld or a rejuvenated Walker I don't know.
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Zouma had already showed in the CC final that he could play effectively in front of the defence when Matic was out which had forced a tactical change on Mourinho. King was an accomplished player in both positions but it was clear his favoured position was central midfield. Dier had never played a competitive game in central midfield prior to yesterday. The decision to play him there was not part of a master tactical plan, but simply because Mason does not provide effective protection of the back 4 and therefore there were not any other options available for Poch. Heck our manager had to acknowledge after the game that he needed more signings. I am willing to put money on it that Poch will be as frustrated with the delays in bringing in the right players as some of the fans are.
 
Robspur12 said:
Zouma had already showed in the CC final that he could play effectively in front of the defence when Matic was out which had forced a tactical change on Mourinho. King was an accomplished player in both positions but it was clear his favoured position was central midfield. Dier had never played a competitive game in central midfield prior to yesterday. The decision to play him there was not part of a master tactical plan, but simply because Mason does not provide effective protection of the back 4 and therefore there were not any other options available for Poch. Heck our manager had to acknowledge after the game that he needed more signings. I am willing to put money on it that Poch will be as frustrated with the delays in bringing in the right players as some of the fans are.
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And yet he had a good game there, maybe Poch has seen things in training that suggests Dier could do a better job there in the long run. None of us really know for sure but until we get a major upgrade he is the best we have.
 
'heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey'

'Sven Bender....oooh aaah'

'I wanna know whoa oh'


if anyone can help me out with the last line I would be much appreciated....
 
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