In terms of which aspects?
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Balloon d'Or
- Thread starter Steed Train
- Start date
In terms of which aspects?
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Better on the ball
Better dribbler
More skillful
Better control
Better first touch
Better passer
Higher intelligence
When it comes to finishing, it's probably a dead heat. Ditto for free kicks.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Also more of a team player unlike Ronaldo who wants to take the 5th penalty in shootouts and be the glory boy rather than taking one of the first penalties.
Apart from 'higher intelligence' (I'm not even sure what that means unless you have access to some IQ test results, etc.) the one which are debatable, imv are
- More skillful
- Better first touch
The manager picks the order - but he's a true winner so I'm not sure how that can be seen as negative
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
You don't think if Ronaldo went to the manager and said "can I take one of the first penalites boss?" that he would let him?
I've done that before and been told to jog on. Not sure how it works with them but I'd imagine he can have a say. Even so - why is it a negative to take massive repsonsibility above the rest?
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
It means he's a more intelligent footballer. The other two aren't debatable. Ronaldo may do more stepovers, but Messi beats with ease and does it better than any other player.
The only areas I would give Ronaldo the nod in would be physical presence (not a surprise really) and being better in the air, but Messi has proven he is no slouch in this area too, see 2009 CL final.
How do you explain Messi having higher goals and assists combined ratio compared to Ronaldo?
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Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
He wanted to the take the last penalty and score the winning penalty IMO, but he forgot to realise that it's irrelevant if the players before him miss their pens.
Put it this way, if England were in a shootout, I'd want Baines to be one of the first takers.
I'm not sure what Baines has to do with this but he's a good taker and a safe bet (unless I've misunderstood this and you want him to take an early one)
His team-mates can still take decent pens so the comparison is inaccurate, imv - no ways you can knock him for that
Of course they're debatable - there is so much more to his game than the silly step-overs. Messi has a lower centre of gravity which makes it look (and to a certain degree is) easier to weave through defenders while Ronaldo has to utlise a greater array of skills. He's an asbolute machine of a player - you've seen that Castol video, I'm sure.
As for the stats - Ronaldo plays in a different role to Messi, don't forget. The fact he's the only one able to nearly match (and outsocre 2 years ago) him is remarkable in itself. As I said - higher difficulty factor for me.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
It's simple really: You want your best players/best set piece specialists and players who take pens for their clubs to be the first ones stepping up to take one. Followed by whoever volunteers. Gareth Southgate only took one in Euro 96 because he volunteered to.
That's one approach, granted - but by no means the only option
Number of shoot-outs go up to a 5th one
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Messi is also more of a team player. He'd be happy not scoring but the team winning, whereas Ronaldo tries to do it all by himself in a lot of games, usually against Barca. Also, you don't often see Messi get frustrated with his teammates like Ronaldo who acts like a baby sometimes when things aren't going right for him.
When it comes to their stats, there's not much separating them, so you then have to look at the trophies they've won and how they've performed in Europe. Messi has scored more goals in the CL and has a higher ratio. Plus he's won the competition 3 times compared to Ronaldo's 1 win. Barca have also got to the semi final or better in the last 5 years, some feat considering it's a cup competition and there are plenty of great teams.
Messi has only become the focal point of the attack since Guardiola took over and moved him from the right to the false no.9 he now operates in.
Besides the fact they operate in different roles on the field (something you appear to be in agreement on) - perhaps Messi's team were better overall, created more chances, or faced weaker opponents, etc. Direct numbers comparison is very difficult here but the fact Ronaldo is nearly matching (and sometimes exceeding) this player extraordinaire is a mighty achievement on its own.
As for team player - that is completely subjective, I'm afraid and down to personal preference, nothing more.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
When you take a team that's crashing and burning, and then pull together a godlike comeback with the same players, beat Napoli, overturn the deficit, beat Barca over two legs, survive camp nou, beat Bayern in there own back yard for the first champions league win ever, storm through the FA cup and win that too, you're a pretty decent coach
He took how little resources he had and somehow won the champions league and FA cup against huge teams. Thats pretty GHod damn impressive. No matter how you look at it. Getting the best results with what you have is managing 101. Its why Dortmund winning the title is considered more impressive than Bayern doing it.
Besides, out of that list he won the arguably the biggest trophies. FA cup is still a big trophy and Champions league is the biggest title. Only guy who can compare is Klopp with the German double
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
This will probably come across as sour grapes and bias against Chelsea, but I seriously wouldn't give him much credit for last season. Drogba virtually won them the CL on his own. He once again scored in an FA Cup final. He replaced AVB after the January window IIRC so it's not like he can be credited with bringing in new players which made the difference. Their players clearly quit on AVB.
His "tactics" if you can call them that in the CL was basically to park the bus, stifle the opposition, bank on other teams missing boat loads of chances and crucial penalties, and then hoping to nick it from a set piece or from penalties. Considering the money they've spent over the years to assemble their team, to play that style of football is pathetic! If they defended so brilliantly as many claim then how come they conceded enough chances to lose 3 games in the first leg of the semi final and then in the final?
Chelsea fans will say "well you can't beat Barca if you attack them", er yes you can! That's how teams in Spain have found success against them. Real Madrid only recently started beating Barca by ditching the anti football and actually going for Barca's weakness, their defence! Even Arsenal managed to beat them at the Emirates by attacking them and parlty lost a 2nd leg due to a joke sending off for Van Persie. OK so lets say for sake of arguement they are right about their methods of beating Barca, what was their excuse when they played against Bayern Munich? Can you not beat them by attacking them? Even though Dortmund managed to beat them 5-2 in the German Cup final 7 days earlier? Or how about when we played them at the Bridge? What was their excuse for parking the bus AT HOME that time?
As much as I dislike them as a club and as much as it hurt to lose out on CL football in that manner, I would have given them some credit if they had actually deserved to win, but they didn't, they were lucky in every round.
He's also been found out already in a few big games this season: Atletico Madrid, United, Emirates Marketing Project.
Agree about Klopp though, he should win coach of the year.
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Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Even more baffling, Mancini is on the list.
