Rob
Peter Taylor
It's a sign of peace, prosperity and good luck - it adorns a lot of buildings in one of the Far East countries but if I guess and say one it'll be the other, let's say Japan...
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Assou-Ekotto
- Thread starter Jurgen the German
- Start date
It's a sign of peace, prosperity and good luck - it adorns a lot of buildings in one of the Far East countries but if I guess and say one it'll be the other, let's say Japan...
Rob
Peter Taylor
I'd agree with you that you didn't know, I'd add that I didn't either. The French comedian did though as he was subject to at least one court case for his anti Semitic stance and was publicly decried by the Jewish community. If he and ekotto is his mate, then he knew.
Edit: BUT that's crediting him with intelligence. If he didn't know then he has done the right thing (unlike le sulka) and publicly apologised for the misinterpretation.
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LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
The Quenelle is an antagonistic gesture designed to offend Jews. Simple. No excuse for it.
Whiffler
Jermaine Jenas
Well, I can't say you're wrong as I didn't sit on the design committee. We play on Saturdays, surely designed to offend Jews.
In the end it's off-pitch gossip and press rot. He should not have been spoken to, let alone banned.
"Je suis Benoit"
Spurv
Paul Konchesky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)
According to this article it's creator Dieudonné think of the gesture as anti-establishment and anti-Zionism, but it's being interpred as a reverse nazi salut. I dunno, I find this very strange to be honest. To exile someone over this is maybe a bit over top? Ekotto's crime was to congratulate Anelka with the quenelle?
Rob
Peter Taylor
Yep, the anti-semite who came up with the current form of the gesture, when accused of anti-semitism and threatened with jail time, claimed it means something else entirely.
It's then used by people all over France and other countries as an anti-semitic gesture and the anti-semite who originated it continues to use it.
Je ne suis pas Dieudonne - il et un quim de miaulement.
Rob
Peter Taylor
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieudonné_M'bala_M'bala
Dieudonné M'bala M'bala (born 11 February 1966), generally known by his stage name Dieudonné (French: [djø.dɔ.ne]), is a French comedian, actor, and political activist. His father is from Cameroon; his mother is from France.
Dieudonné initially achieved success with a Jewish comedian, Élie Semoun, humorously exploiting racial stereotypes. He campaigned against racism and was a candidate in the 1997 and 2001 legislative elections in Dreux against the National Front, the French far-right political party that he perceived as racist. On 1 December 2003, Dieudonné performed a sketch on a TV show about an Israeli settler whom he depicted as a Nazi. Some critics argued that he had "crossed the limits of antisemitism" and several organizations sued him for incitement to racial hatred. Dieudonné refused to apologize and denounced Zionism and the Jewish lobby.
Dieudonné approached Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the National Front political party that he had fought earlier, and the men became political allies and friends. Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson appeared in one of his shows in 2008. Dieudonné described Holocaust remembrance as "memorial ****ography". Dieudonné was convicted in court eight times on antisemitism charges. Dieudonné subsequently found himself with increasing frequency banned from mainstream media, and many of his shows were cancelled by local authorities. Active on the internet and in his Paris theater, Dieudonné has continued to have a following. His quenelle signature gesture became notorious in 2013, particularly after footballer Nicolas Anelka used the gesture during a match in December 2013. His recent appearances and videos are often rants in which the “Jewish lobby” and “Israel lobby” are characterised as controlling things.
After Dieudonné was recorded during a performance mocking a Jewish journalist, suggesting it was a pity that he was not sent to the gas chambers, French Interior Minister Manuel Valls stated that Dieudonné was "no longer a comedian" but was rather an "anti-Semite and racist" and that he would seek to ban all Dieudonné's public gatherings as a public safety risk. The ban on his shows has been upheld by French courts.
Dieudonné M'bala M'bala (born 11 February 1966), generally known by his stage name Dieudonné (French: [djø.dɔ.ne]), is a French comedian, actor, and political activist. His father is from Cameroon; his mother is from France.
Dieudonné initially achieved success with a Jewish comedian, Élie Semoun, humorously exploiting racial stereotypes. He campaigned against racism and was a candidate in the 1997 and 2001 legislative elections in Dreux against the National Front, the French far-right political party that he perceived as racist. On 1 December 2003, Dieudonné performed a sketch on a TV show about an Israeli settler whom he depicted as a Nazi. Some critics argued that he had "crossed the limits of antisemitism" and several organizations sued him for incitement to racial hatred. Dieudonné refused to apologize and denounced Zionism and the Jewish lobby.
Dieudonné approached Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the National Front political party that he had fought earlier, and the men became political allies and friends. Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson appeared in one of his shows in 2008. Dieudonné described Holocaust remembrance as "memorial ****ography". Dieudonné was convicted in court eight times on antisemitism charges. Dieudonné subsequently found himself with increasing frequency banned from mainstream media, and many of his shows were cancelled by local authorities. Active on the internet and in his Paris theater, Dieudonné has continued to have a following. His quenelle signature gesture became notorious in 2013, particularly after footballer Nicolas Anelka used the gesture during a match in December 2013. His recent appearances and videos are often rants in which the “Jewish lobby” and “Israel lobby” are characterised as controlling things.
After Dieudonné was recorded during a performance mocking a Jewish journalist, suggesting it was a pity that he was not sent to the gas chambers, French Interior Minister Manuel Valls stated that Dieudonné was "no longer a comedian" but was rather an "anti-Semite and racist" and that he would seek to ban all Dieudonné's public gatherings as a public safety risk. The ban on his shows has been upheld by French courts.
Rob
Peter Taylor
Are they identical or in reverse? Sorry going OT here but it's interesting to me! I know I could google it but hey...
Talking about Benoit's ban, i'm pretty sure that he has technically served it now by default. Although premier league don't count against the ban as he isn't registered. I believe you don't have to be in the premier league squad to be legible in the league cup and fa cup so these games have counted towards his suspension.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
If Ekotto believed it wasnt an anti Jewish gesture and that his friend M'bala wasnt an anti semite then why did he tweet to M'Bala
'oh dieudo tu vien quand voir un match a tottenham? Tu va adore ... LOL.’
‘When are you coming to watch a match at Tottenham? You’ll love it ... LOL.’
Ekotto was fully aware.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
SteveAWOL
Barry Daines
I remember watching a documentary on TV last year about the swastika' ancient origins but needless to say it has been around for millennia...
BBC News - How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it
Swastika symbols seen in unusual places around the world, in pictures - Telegraph
EDIT: found the show for those of you that are interested
BBC The Story of the Swastika - YouTube
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spurspinter1
Pat van den Hauwe
I see your point and think it is a shame that the quenelle has this negative aspect to it, when speaking about with French people it was meant to represent something else.
My argument isn't that it was right to do what Benny did, more that anyone who thinks that BAE was intending to use the gesture as a symbol of his hatred towards the Jewish population calling for his head is misguided.
spurspinter1
Pat van den Hauwe
I don't really know much about the "comedian" friend so really the article above was interesting, but in terms of this tweet, when was it? I think if it was after having all gigs banned on account of him being anti semitic I understand where you're coming from but it still doesn't prove anything.
BAE will put lol after pretty much anything, that's a given. If they are good friends then Benny would think he'd enjoy it and would want him to see a game.
White Hart Lane isn't wall to wall hasidic jews, with Rabbis playing the dreidal game for the half time entertainment. It's a football club with supporters from many different backgrounds/religions. If it wasn't for the large Jewish following then I wouldn't be a fan of Spurs, but it most certainly isn't a Jewish club as you said. Linking religion and football in a false way to be offended isn't a productive practice.
The thing I find very interesting is how the comedian in question went from campaigning against the NF, rising to fame in a partnership with a Jewish comic (might be not 100% on that, just what the article suggested) to becoming such a prominent anti semitic figure.
Whiffler
Jermaine Jenas
Maybe he got the ache with the dullards who get upset when the humour doesn't suit them any more. In the end they give more publicity to the perceived hatred and, by stoking the embers, generate more heat ..... maybe less light. He's working as a comedian, so will lurch from topic to topic to get publicity.
I think I'd better stop before I offend myself. That said, I feel like banning myself from something for some reason or another.
"Je suis Benoit"
Rob
Peter Taylor
Yeah was similar for me when I was watching some ancient architecture program and all of a sudden these swastikas starting popping up all over the place! I can only imagine seeing them for the first time first hand rather than on telly.
Now there's a shock...
Excellent, I'll give that a watch - if it's a few years old that may actually be what I saw initially but was a good decade ago IIRC.
Amazing that something so deeply rooted historically can be taken and used by one evil man and history forever associates it with that... I mean it's not even in the league where people can say let's take it back and give it back it's original meaning.