Ange in or out?

[ricky2tricky4city]

I get the idea behind not changing tactics in principle as you want to be able to swap your players in/out of the team and have everyone up to speed - so that's not an issue for me. The issue is that the tactics demonstratably do not work.

I think that has to be the reasonable boil down conclusion.

I think the tactics might work with exceptional players (Barca are giving it a good go), because that is what you need playing this way in an exceptional league.

The other way it works is to play in a lower quality league with the best players.

 

[Gutter Boy]

See, I don’t believe that.

I play over 35s. It’s a social thing really and to keep some way fit. But lads will kill each other in training to win let alone the actual games. It’s the same for my kid at u13 level.

I cannot believe that professionals who have dedicated their lives to making it would go out on a pitch, in front of 60,000 paying fans and the world on TV, and not have the professional pride to try.

Id imagine they are conscious that the system causes them a high rate of injuries and routinely exposes them to looking incompetent. They are motivations for slightly phoning it in, or at best being slightly conservative with their choices

 

[billyiddo]

I think that has to be the reasonable boil down conclusion.

I think the tactics might work with exceptional players (Barca are giving it a good go), because that is what you need playing this way in an exceptional league.

The other way it works is to play in a lower quality league with the best players.

Can't really comment on Barca as I don't watch them enough to say - I'd be sceptical of the tactics we play succeeding in the PL regardless of the level of player at our disposal tbh, I think there's too much quality in the PL for a team to be so wide open and and not be punished.

Regarding Barca, if you take Uniteds comfortable disposal of 4th (?) place Bilbao as an indicator of the comparable quality of the the two leagues then I'm not sure you can put much stock in what they do with similar tactics.

And if it boils down to needing exceptional players in order for it to work - then why should we stick with it rather than any other approach? Exceptional players deployed in any setup will likely do well - that's not exactly an endorsement of the setup now is it? You need a setup that makes you greater than the sum of your parts in order to succeed here with the level of finances of rival clubs, that or a manager who is tactically astute enough to adapt depending on the opposition. Either way...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Can't really comment on Barca as I don't watch them enough to say - I'd be sceptical of the tactics we play succeeding in the PL regardless of the level of player at our disposal tbh, I think there's too much quality in the PL for a team to be so wide open and and not be punished.

City had similar problems before ironing it out by basically playing CBs as FBs and of course Rodri. (Facilitated by endless money, of course)

Regarding Barca, if you take Uniteds comfortable disposal of 4th (?) place Bilbao as an indicator of the comparable quality of the the two leagues then I'm not sure you can put much stock in what they do with similar tactics.

It was a strange game the first leg (Inc the early sending off)
The second leg they had 3 of their best players missing.

And if it boils down to needing exceptional players in order for it to work - then why should we stick with it rather than any other approach? Exceptional players deployed in any setup will likely do well - that's not exactly an endorsement of the setup now is it? You need a setup that makes you greater than the sum of your parts in order to succeed here with the level of finances of rival clubs, that or a manager who is tactically astute enough to adapt depending on the opposition. Either way...

I'm not endorsing the set-up and the way we play it is certainly flawed, and in general appears to take almost pin point perfection to succeed.
I agree that the 'greater than the sum of its parts' avenue is the one we should aim and hope for. Given what we are up against.

I think what has clearly happened is Ange has brought his brand of football to us and has stuck with it and his principals simply because that has worked for him consistently throughout his rise as a manager. That as a starting point for him at Spurs is understandable and logical. If it ain't broke etc.

The failure of it, is his version of the system is not very good (it's hit a ceiling). His system is good but this league is another level. He's not got the players to let the system excel.
It can be a mix of these things but it does it really matter at this stage?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Honestly…. That’s like my mate who has been saying he played to a good level (local level getting £15 a game) saying it wouldn’t be acceptable to them

Professionals do this all the time
They hold back because they can
They know they need/want to be in that final
They even talk about it when they retire
I a senior guy at work and I pick and choose when I put my efforts in

Yet Palace, with a close to full strength team, went out and tried 6 days before a cup final.

Either they have much better pros than us or there is something else amiss.

 

[metalgear]

Utd have been winning trophies even when they've been brick, we couldn't win one when were great, totally different situations. Not a big deal for Utd if they go this season without winning one while they rebuild. We need a trophy to get the monkey off our back.

the final will come down to which set of players want champions league more

 

[metalgear]

We are
But the players aren’t trying either

they have given their hamstrings and joints for ange and its still not enough

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yet Palace, with a close to full strength team, went out and tried 6 days before a cup final.

Either they have much better pros than us or there is something else amiss.

They didn’t travel back from Norway Friday morning
I’m not excusing them
I’m trying to put context into why they were playing at 70%

 

[DubSpur]

the final will come down to which set of players want champions league more

Think it will come down to who makes the least amount of fudge ups. Both teams have been making stupid mistakes all season.