Ange has a higher win percentage than Jol, and has got us further in cup competitions. albeit big Mart managed 148 games to Ange's 80.
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Ange in or out?
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
lurker of old
Sebastien Bassong
We just don't take risks. We are so risk adverse that we are almost the antithesis of our freaking motto. We don't dare and we absolutely don't do.
I would argue that the trouble is that we have taken risks but recent footballing risks haven't worked out. As an example, I believe that Modric was seen by some as too lightweight for this league, but Levy bought him. And Berbatov etc. But the overweight French guy (can't recall name) was a £60m risk which became a financial disaster. Getting Ange in was a risk. Keeping him for a second season was definitely a risk. I think what you are saying is that when we built Ange a team, there was still some daft compromise in the squad building, which hurt us badly when we needed defensive reinforcements. In other words we go 80% of the way to backing a manager, but not the whole 100% of the way.
I would argue that the trouble is that we have taken risks but recent footballing risks haven't worked out. As an example, I believe that Modric was seen by some as too lightweight for this league, but Levy bought him. And Berbatov etc. But the overweight French guy (can't recall name) was a £60m risk which became a financial disaster. Getting Ange in was a risk. Keeping him for a second season was definitely a risk. I think what you are saying is that when we built Ange a team, there was still some daft compromise in the squad building, which hurt us badly when we needed defensive reinforcements. In other words we go 80% of the way to backing a manager, but not the whole 100% of the way.
Sorry my bad the stats i saw were the loss percentage. 93/94 was 45% of games lost. Currently we are 54% of games lost. Which is the worst ratio in our history.
Robspur12
Jimmy Neighbour
No I dont. Ramos got us playing very well against teams who were, on paper, superior to us. In particular, 5-1 vs Arsenal, 2-1 vs Chelsea in the final, leading the peak United until almost the last kick of the game. We attacked AND defended well in many games. Sure it went wrong in the end partly due to the disgraceful summer transfer window but he achieved significant results along the way. Even if Ange wins the Europa League, he won't have beaten the quality of opposition that Ramos did on the way to the Carling Cup. I genuinely loved the Ramos period up to the Carling Cup win. During that time he was a far superior manager to Ange IMHO.
Robspur12
Jimmy Neighbour
All probably true. But BMJ was the trailblazer. He took us to within 1 point of Champions League football in 2006. He then finished 5th the following year. Imho he was a better manager than Ange.
I do agree with this post Rob, but as a sidenote I don't like people directly comparison European performance to domestic cup performance. Yes on paper Chelsea from that year is more difficult than the opposition in the Europa League. But to travel in Europe, play teams with a different style and culture in the middle of the week and at atmospheres that are often more intimidating than in England it's not an easy thing to do. And for us if and a big if we did win it, to of finished 4th in our group, negotiated three knockout ties and a final in Bilbao? I would say that is just as difficult as a couple of London derby wins including a very much second string Arsenal side where we had our first eleven playing....
Robspur12
Jimmy Neighbour
Not sure I agree tbh. There is no bigger game than playing those 2 London derbies especially in cup competitions. We hadn't beaten any string of Arsenal team for some time before that CC cup win. I don't think many would agree that it would be less hard than playing Hoffenheim, AZ and Frankfurt.. I'm not sure either that Ange wins the CC that year either.
Daveeeeeeeed
Erik Edman
I would say it is actually easier for us to play in Europe than it is in the league, as the Europeans do not know how to play against us or probably do not watch our play week in week out. All of the premier league teams have worked out how to play against us as we only have one way of playing. It just happens that 3 of those teams have performed worse than us, but Leicester we have lost and drawn, Ipswich we have lost and won, and Soton ok, we did the double over them.
You could also point out we still have West Ham to play, so we could do the double over them, but our record at their stadium of late isnt great.
What I am getting is that, Europe has been a nice distraction and the teams we have played this year have hardly been decent. Frankfurt and the Turkish team being the toughest, but that's only really due to the crowd and atmosphere. To win the Europa league will hardly be deemed a miracle from outside of Tottenham, but for us it is a necessity that we do win it.
Neither am I
Like I say, I just don't like comparing because to win it we would have played 15 games travelling around Europe for half of them and we have played some decent sides - sure it doesn't compare to our CL run, but still I think it would be right up there in terms of our accomplishments in modern history. But I doubt we will have to worry about this debate anyway ...