Ange in or out?

[Grays_1890]

If he simply repeated that and went 5th place, trophy in every two seasons from then on then he would be Spurs greatest ever manager by a big margin.

The hypothetical cup win is extremely pertinent to the conversation as the whole point was that if (and I agree it is a big IF) Spurs happen to win the Europa League this season then it would be madness for anything other than the manager to continue next season.

Abd if they don't he has been one of the most useless whilst being one of the most backed managed in Spurs history. Given the title of the thread, I don't think he has done anything like what he should have.......

 

[Finney Is Back]

Being at the top end of the table is a better indicator that you are good enough to compete for trophies than being mid/lower table i would say.


I agree with @fernadez above that if Ange wins the EL he should lead us in to next season, but that would be out of curtesy rather than any belief that he will build upon it.

I don't want Spurs to 'compete' for trophies, that is what our chairman talks about far too often, I want Spurs to actually WIN trophies, which is what the owners of e.g. Liverpool talk about.

 

[harr1984]

Man Utd winning the FA Cup is not a particularly big thing, they have won about 45 major titles in their history with 20+ of them coming in the last 25 years.

Spurs winning the Europa is a massive thing. We've won 17 major trophies in our history with only 1 of them coming in the last 25 years.

Not to mention that they've hardly moved forward since sacking Ten Hag, they look worse. Just like us, they change managers but it doesn't ever cover the fact the issues stem from further up....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Abd if they don't he has been one of the most useless whilst being one of the most backed managed in Spurs history. Given the title of the thread, I don't think he has done anything like what he should have.......

If we don't win the Europa then he loses his job at the end of the season. I suspect everyone on this forum feels that Ange will be fired if we do not win the Europa. There is no argument there.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not to mention that they've hardly moved forward since sacking Ten Hag, they look worse. Just like us, they change managers but it doesn't ever cover the fact the issues stem from further up....

Indeed. Amorim is a very good manager but will need time, whether he will get that I'm not sure.

He was probably the right manager to bring to Spurs after sacking Conte, as the way he shapes the team and some of his principles are similar (not that I ever expect Spurs to have much in the way of succession planning).

The only time we lucked out on having some succession planning was when Levy thought he knew more than Arnesen about football and appointed Santini instead of Jol and we ended up being lucky that Arnesen managed to persuade Jol to take a coaching job instead. We ended up missing out on Europe by a point or two that first season after the bad start under Santini. Still - what did Arnesen know about football?

 

[Grays_1890]

Being at the top end of the table is a better indicator that you are good enough to compete for trophies than being mid/lower table i would say.


I agree with @fernadez above that if Ange wins the EL he should lead us in to next season, but that would be out of curtesy rather than any belief that he will build upon it.

This is where I sit with it, thats not the same as people making out you or I are saying finishing higher and top 4 is a choice over trophies. If you are better week in week out then that is a better indicator and guide to being better in cups as the majority of cup winners proves. I am not getting into another lost afternoon of arguments on it, but we opened the door plenty during a few managers times here without walking through, which came from a great foundation of league form.

The idea you win a league cup and thats the driver forward for more glory is romantic but one I find laughable at times, given the fact the clubs used as examples (usually Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project) were always going to move onward to win more given their huge financial backing.

And Enic, Levy or Ange or not, the money and the riches needed to be better consistently lies in the better comps......just a fact of the modern game. As per the accounts showing how much is lost not being in them

 

[harr1984]

This is where I sit with it, thats not the same as people making out you or I are saying finishing higher and top 4 is a choice over trophies. If you are better week in week out then that is a better indicator and guide to being better in cups as the majority of cup winners proves. I am not getting into another lost afternoon of arguments on it, but we opened the door plenty during a few managers times here without walking through, which came from a great foundation of league form.

The idea you win a league cup and thats the driver forward for more glory is romantic but one I find laughable at times, given the fact the clubs used as examples (usually Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project) were always going to move onward to win more given their huge financial backing.

And Enic, Levy or Ange or not, the money and the riches needed to be better consistently lies in the better comps......just a fact of the modern game. As per the accounts showing how much is lost not being in them

That all sounds great and logical, until you remember we are Spurs We had constant top 4 finishes under Poch, and found various unique and creative ways to fudge up winning a trophy.

We will or at least should be grateful for any trophy we get our hands on, as much as finishing in the top 4 is great we have naff all to show for it. I've honestly never known a place to look down at winning a trophy whether it's another team or the potential of us doing it as much as a section do here(not directing this at you btw). For as long as Levy and co are here we will not be consistently winning trophies so I will cherish any trophy we actually manage to win far more than another period of top 4 finishes.

There is always this idea that we are on the cusp of competing with Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project etc now but the reality is we won't because we don't push the boat out. I'm fine with it, but it's just as laughable the claims some on here have made and continue to about how now with the new stadium we are going to compete with the big boys - we aren't. So any trophy we can get our hands on would be great, the top 4 trophy is so last year....

 

[Muttley]

This is where I sit with it, thats not the same as people making out you or I are saying finishing higher and top 4 is a choice over trophies. If you are better week in week out then that is a better indicator and guide to being better in cups as the majority of cup winners proves. I am not getting into another lost afternoon of arguments on it, but we opened the door plenty during a few managers times here without walking through, which came from a great foundation of league form.

The idea you win a league cup and thats the driver forward for more glory is romantic but one I find laughable at times, given the fact the clubs used as examples (usually Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project) were always going to move onward to win more given their huge financial backing.

And Enic, Levy or Ange or not, the money and the riches needed to be better consistently lies in the better comps......just a fact of the modern game. As per the accounts showing how much is lost not being in them

Whenever we have got CL, I've always looked at the other top 6 clubs that didn't. Those clubs go through their mini-meltdowns and leave that door open for whoever wants to take it. Harry took it at the expense of the emerging City. Poch took it whilst Utd and Arsenal were going through their meltdowns. Chelsea also had the club doctor fiasco whilst Leciester won the league. Next season we came second and had back to back CL campaigns under Poch. Even Conte took that opportunity in his first season.

Ange nearly took it as well. He was very close last season as big clubs had meltdowns and Villa jumped ahead of us to nick it.

If there's one guarantee in life, another chance for Spurs to get back into the CL will appear. We just need to get our brick together like we have a few times in the last decade or so.

 

[Mikey10]

It just doesn't happen mate. It's 2025, black people don't walk down the street and get beaten up for their colour, and black people don't get jobs because of their colour. In fact, a white person is far more likely to get assaulted in places like Brixton for being white, and companies have been put under pressure to employ minority groups. The majority of racism in this country is anti white, and that's the crazy society we live in. Try being a white person in a black country, then you can really experience racism. I don't like to use the words, but there are too many chips on too many shoulders

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2er3ke2yjno

Sentencing hearing rescheduled for woman who killed man in violent racist attack | Avon and Somerset Police

Christina Howell, 37, fatally stabbed Hubert “Isaac” Brown in September 2023 in St Paul’s, Bristol.

www.avonandsomerset.police.uk

Man injured in 'prolonged' racist attack in Belfast

The victim attended hospital for treatment for injuries to his arm

www.belfastlive.co.uk

 

[Grays_1890]

That all sounds great and logical, until you remember we are Spurs We had constant top 4 finishes under Poch, and found various unique and creative ways to fudge up winning a trophy.

We will or at least should be grateful for any trophy we get our hands on, as much as finishing in the top 4 is great we have naff all to show for it. I've honestly never known a place to look down at winning a trophy whether it's another team or the potential of us doing it as much as a section do here(not directing this at you btw). For as long as Levy and co are here we will not be consistently winning trophies so I will cherish any trophy we actually manage to win far more than another period of top 4 finishes.

There is always this idea that we are on the cusp of competing with Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project etc now but the reality is we won't because we don't push the boat out. I'm fine with it, but it's just as laughable the claims some on here have made and continue to about how now with the new stadium we are going to compete with the big boys - we aren't. So any trophy we can get our hands on would be great, the top 4 trophy is so last year....

But even in the last 20 years of self loathing, the biggest chances we had, that came in batches of finals and SFs was when we were performing well in the league, thats ultimately what my point is. 2014-2020 epsecially.

I am not for comparing us to City or Chelsea, I used them as an example of false logic of people saying cup wins lead to long periods of success, I mean for them they did but money played a bigger part.

I am for Spurs being Spurs and to say again for those at the back, I wanna win things, I just don't believe the odd cup win every 10 years proves a longer period of success, for me we can do and should aspire to perform well in the league and win the odd cup, not have to choose

 

[billyiddo]

I don't want Spurs to 'compete' for trophies, that is what our chairman talks about far too often, I want Spurs to actually WIN trophies, which is what the owners of e.g. Liverpool talk about.

Ok well then reread my post and swap out 'compete' with 'win' and the point remains the same.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

It just doesn't happen mate. It's 2025, black people don't walk down the street and get beaten up for their colour, and black people don't get jobs because of their colour. In fact, a white person is far more likely to get assaulted in places like Brixton for being white, and companies have been put under pressure to employ minority groups. The majority of racism in this country is anti white, and that's the crazy society we live in. Try being a white person in a black country, then you can really experience racism. I don't like to use the words, but there are too many chips on too many shoulders

It's one thing being a troll, and if that's what floats your boat, which it clearly is, so be it. But you can be a troll without being downright insulting to a poster (and without ignoring what has actually been written).

 

[harr1984]

But even in the last 20 years of self loathing, the biggest chances we had, that came in batches of finals and SFs was when we were performing well in the league, thats ultimately what my point is. 2014-2020 epsecially.

I am not for comparing us to City or Chelsea, I used them as an example of false logic of people saying cup wins lead to long periods of success, I mean for them they did but money played a bigger part.

I am for Spurs being Spurs and to say again for those at the back, I wanna win things, I just don't believe the odd cup win every 10 years proves a longer period of success, for me we can do and should aspire to perform well in the league and win the odd cup, not have to choose

Yeah I wouldn't argue with that, my point was more that nothing will prove a longer period of success whether it be a small trophy win or consistent top 4 finishes - hence why we should be grateful for whatever trophy we can get our hands on.

Because even the biggest clubs in the country fall away they don't stay at the top, we aren't ever going to do a Emirates Marketing Project and dominate for years no matter how much money our stadium brings in and how good the investment in youth is, for as long as our current owners are in place the best we can hope for is the odd trophy.

So was Ange to ( and I doubt he will) bring home the Europa then he should be reverred by the club and fans alike.....

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yep over a two year stretch, but if he doesn't himself use the cup win to kick on as a club and manager which IMO means also improving in the league to a minimum ask of the CL (thats not saying its better than a cup win before people drone on) then its all for nothing to an extent.

He has to do better week in week out as manager, the fact people are having to add on hypothetical cup wins proves that

If he simply repeated that and went 5th place, trophy in every two seasons from then on then he would be Spurs greatest ever manager by a big margin.

The hypothetical cup win is extremely pertinent to the conversation as the whole point was that if (and I agree it is a big IF) Spurs happen to win the Europa League this season then it would be madness for anything other than the manager to continue next season.

....there is logically a chance Ange may get to continue if he/we lift the EL....

But but but... Let me throw a curve ball at you (and anyone else)....there could be an even greater twisted logic that he should continue if we DON'T get European football next year. With a more mature squad and a really light, mostly a game-a-week schedule, he may just be able to get his gameplan firing most weeks. He managed 5th in similar circumstances despite it being his first year.

The biggest issue with him continuing on the back of this season is we will know within 4 months if we've boo booed the decision...and then we are left in mid season limbo.

 

[fernadez]

....there is logically a chance Ange may get to continue if he/we lift the EL....

But but but... Let me throw a curve ball at you (and anyone else)....there could be an even greater twisted logic that he should continue if we DON'T get European football next year. With a more mature squad and a really light, mostly a game-a-week schedule, he may just be able to get his gameplan firing most weeks. He managed 5th in similar circumstances despite it being his first year.

The biggest issue with him continuing on the back of this season is we will know within 4 months if we've boo booed the decision...and then we are left in mid season limbo.

I wouldn't have an issue with that if on the field there were signs of anything positive on the pitch. We're getting worse by the week however.

 

[DTA]

It just doesn't happen mate. It's 2025, black people don't walk down the street and get beaten up for their colour, and black people don't get jobs because of their colour. In fact, a white person is far more likely to get assaulted in places like Brixton for being white, and companies have been put under pressure to employ minority groups. The majority of racism in this country is anti white, and that's the crazy society we live in. Try being a white person in a black country, then you can really experience racism. I don't like to use the words, but there are too many chips on too many shoulders

Mate… you cant just say it doesn’t happen. all of what I wrote were actual events experienced by friends of mine (the passed over for promotion 5 times - I will admit I can’t remember the actual number he said but he was passed up for promotion and his boss used to say racist shít when he wasn’t about)

 

[Grays_1890]

I wouldn't have an issue with that if on the field there were signs of anything positive on the pitch. We're getting worse by the week however.

What this blokes said

 

[Legohamster]

His latest comments about not being prepared for the season is just another example of a man out of his depth.

Thought he had 26 years experience and didn't want to be called naive ?

 

[SteveAWOL]

Optus Sport

sport.optus.com.au

Postecoglou admits Spurs error derailed season as he trys to get fans believing again: ‘I'm still optimistic’​

Asked what had been the biggest challenge this season, Postecoglou replied: “The domino effect of certain things happening.

“Again, you try and assess things as you go along but I think we got the start of the year wrong…it's becoming increasingly challenging for footballers, they don't get the traditional break.

“I think we went into the season really hard and underestimated the challenges of Europe with the two extra games, having a cup run...all those things.

“You add to the mix losing key players early on. It feels like we've been chasing our tail since then and we haven't been able to get ahead of the challenges we've had and then something else happens and it shifts.

“That goes back to the start of the year - we maybe would have taken a different approach knowing the kind of season we had ahead.”

 

[fernadez]

Optus Sport

sport.optus.com.au

Postecoglou admits Spurs error derailed season as he trys to get fans believing again: ‘I'm still optimistic’​

Asked what had been the biggest challenge this season, Postecoglou replied: “The domino effect of certain things happening.

“Again, you try and assess things as you go along but I think we got the start of the year wrong…it's becoming increasingly challenging for footballers, they don't get the traditional break.

“I think we went into the season really hard and underestimated the challenges of Europe with the two extra games, having a cup run...all those things.

“You add to the mix losing key players early on. It feels like we've been chasing our tail since then and we haven't been able to get ahead of the challenges we've had and then something else happens and it shifts.

“That goes back to the start of the year - we maybe would have taken a different approach knowing the kind of season we had ahead.”

Sounds like code for saying that he over worked them and they fell apart as a result.