Ange in or out?

[Mr Gogolak]

Said that before
He is the one before the ONE

Does that make him a zero, then?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What he say?

Usual brick
Must stick together and stand up and take accountability…
Pretty much everything they don’t do

 

[glasgowspur]

Seeing the Barcodes win with what I see as a decent but not great manager really irritates me, we've got more resources but not pulled it together. Shows what can be done with some good players, decent team spirit etc. They've had plenty of injuries as well.

We would never get away with their "style" of football, there would be a flurry of yellow and red cards if we tried that. Really can't believe howe sets his team up like that, what has happened to him?
Now that they have won something it's going to be much harder for them, they won't plumb the same depths as Leicester but I can see them struggling massively over the next few seasons.

 

[RigorMortis]

I think that’s all speculative… I think the facts speak for themselves and this what you are speculating wouldn’t even be questioned if he did well.

He was not questioned about his nationality when he came from Celtic… I remember him being lauded … a little too much actually. So like I’ve said previously he’s Australian when he’s doing ok, but when he’s not doing ok then it’s xenophobic to assume that he’s Australian and that’s why the media have jumped on him.

What I can agree with though is the media is sly, snide and sinister and will throw in anything with all angles to sell news (ironically mostly owned by an Australian in Rupert murdoch and co). Not just him as he is Australian but any manger with any back ground.

I don’t think the media have been pushing an anti aussie agenda but definately that’s been there in some of the fans.Like i said it’s not xenophobia but a just a general feeling that australia isn’t a footballing country so why is he here.

End of the day he hasn’t covered himself in any glory either

 

[Jurgen the German]

To be clear mate, I am using your reply as a general response to several here, albeit the first bit below is specific to your post. I offer it in the spirit of discussion not rancor...


...In that Gross season, we finished 14th, or 6th from bottom, a squad with Ginola, Ferdinand, Anderson, Mabbutt, Carr, Campbell and Klinsmann. Under Ossie we finished 15th, or 5th from bottom, a squad with Anderton, Sheringham, Mabbutt, Carr, Barmby, and Erik the Viking.

Ange did not inherit a club who had challenged for European football for pretty much 20 years straight, he inherited a club which was in need of a complete and utter rebuild, root and branch, within the entire club (football side and boardroom structure in relation to footballing operations) and on the verge of losing the generational talent who had band-aided the post-Poch years. He literally started with a combination of mediocrity and promise. THIS season, the agreed and continued path of youth was persued, meaning we have spent much of the season with a hugelky young and inexperienced side. I won't go on about the injuries!

I think his time has come. I think it is pretty much untennable that he will be here beyond the summer. Water and bridges and all that. The performances have not been good enough, even with context that is clearly the case, but he will never, ever be given any concession as people are fudging angry. I get it. I've been angry too. But the balance of discussion has been lost IMO.

The work he has done here will not ever be recognized. But it is undeniable. Gray, Bergvall, Spence, managing Moore when the geezer wasn't even a regular U-21 yet. The first three will benefit enormously from this season. Did we have a choice? Probably not. Did he manage them very well during a time which could've broken such young talents? IMO, yes.

It is possible to be critical of him and also recognise that he has faced challenges and hurdles unlike any other Spurs manager in modern times. I have read some people go on about himn being 'the worst ever' and nonsense like that. I remember Terry Neil's dismal dismal Spurs. Burky took over and we got relegated. It wasn't on him, it was the mess that utter p-rick Neil left behind. I remember towards the end of the Badger's era some of the most dismal football I've ever seen from us. I remember how truly lost Gross was. And some of the rubbish that Mourinho served up was beyond reproach. In my opinion anyway.

I think Postecoglu will leave and carry the burden of anger for some time. I believe one day, probably a few years down the line, people will have softened and recognised what he did during an era of enormous difficulties....it's a bit like how suddenly I see people begging for Poch's return; yes, that's right, some of them are the very same who could not wait to be rid of him.

Sorry to nitpick but we finished 15th in a 22 team league under Ossie and 14th under Gross so not 6th bottom. So I think Deano’s point stands.

 

[Benny_Lad]

We would never get away with their "style" of football, there would be a flurry of yellow and red cards if we tried that. Really can't believe howe sets his team up like that, what has happened to him?
Now that they have won something it's going to be much harder for them, they won't plumb the same depths as Leicester but I can see them struggling massively over the next few seasons.

Howe probably saw them getting away with stuff as the new media and referee darlings and thought he’d run with it. Also playing to the strengths of the likes of Joelinton and Bruno G.

They also recruited quite well. Isak, Gordon and Bruno cost decent money and wages but that’s what you need to do to kick on - who knew. In comparison to those 3 we bought Johnson, Solanke, and youth in midfield. Not hard to see why they’re doing better.

 

[billyiddo]

Credit of course for being part of the team (and the man with the final say) that identified and actioned the signings of some very good players but other than playing a few of the youngsters (in a backs to the wall scenario) I'm not exactly sure what he is supposed to have done that would be worthy of looking back on with fondness down the line.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It's a weird one. In isolation, I don't really see much wrong with saying something back to a fan. But you're right that when it happens repeatedly then it's an issue.

I try to avoid playing armchair psychologist but for me it feels like the chip on his shoulder is growing and growing. I think that chip comes from his perspective of being this Aussie challenger taking on the English press and fans who all seem out to get him. In the past, I think the chip has driven him and he's used it to his advantage, to galvanise the club he's in charge of but nothing is improving at Spurs.

It increasingly looks in real danger of spinning out of control and being a really rough end.

I think that’s a really good take on it. He’s clearly irked by the way his track record was dismissed by the press from early on. And I get it. Despite my doubts about him, I always credit Ange as a guy who built himself up from working in a bank to being a Premier League manager with a lot of successes under his belt.

But he’s passed comments which suggested that he felt his reputation was being short changed from early on. “This league isn’t the be all and end all like you guys think”, “I’ve taken a lot of stick from you guys that’s been dismissive, I won’t talk about it now but will in the future”, “I have won trophies mate, do you want to see them”, “I always win in my second season”.

And he’s not been unjustified in that. Some of the commentary, while I agree with the core points, has been coated in condescension and manipulation of sound bites. Unfortunately, as you allude to, things seem to be spiralling out of control.

 

[DeanoAustin]

To be clear mate, I am using your reply as a general response to several here, albeit the first bit below is specific to your post. I offer it in the spirit of discussion not rancor...


...In that Gross season, we finished 14th, or 6th from bottom, a squad with Ginola, Ferdinand, Anderson, Mabbutt, Carr, Campbell and Klinsmann. Under Ossie we finished 15th, or 5th from bottom, a squad with Anderton, Sheringham, Mabbutt, Carr, Barmby, and Erik the Viking.

Ange did not inherit a club who had challenged for European football for pretty much 20 years straight, he inherited a club which was in need of a complete and utter rebuild, root and branch, within the entire club (football side and boardroom structure in relation to footballing operations) and on the verge of losing the generational talent who had band-aided the post-Poch years. He literally started with a combination of mediocrity and promise. THIS season, the agreed and continued path of youth was persued, meaning we have spent much of the season with a hugelky young and inexperienced side. I won't go on about the injuries!

I think his time has come. I think it is pretty much untennable that he will be here beyond the summer. Water and bridges and all that. The performances have not been good enough, even with context that is clearly the case, but he will never, ever be given any concession as people are fudging angry. I get it. I've been angry too. But the balance of discussion has been lost IMO.

The work he has done here will not ever be recognized. But it is undeniable. Gray, Bergvall, Spence, managing Moore when the geezer wasn't even a regular U-21 yet. The first three will benefit enormously from this season. Did we have a choice? Probably not. Did he manage them very well during a time which could've broken such young talents? IMO, yes.

It is possible to be critical of him and also recognise that he has faced challenges and hurdles unlike any other Spurs manager in modern times. I have read some people go on about himn being 'the worst ever' and nonsense like that. I remember Terry Neil's dismal dismal Spurs. Burky took over and we got relegated. It wasn't on him, it was the mess that utter p-rick Neil left behind. I remember towards the end of the Badger's era some of the most dismal football I've ever seen from us. I remember how truly lost Gross was. And some of the rubbish that Mourinho served up was beyond reproach. In my opinion anyway.

I think Postecoglu will leave and carry the burden of anger for some time. I believe one day, probably a few years down the line, people will have softened and recognised what he did during an era of enormous difficulties....it's a bit like how suddenly I see people begging for Poch's return; yes, that's right, some of them are the very same who could not wait to be rid of him.

On a point of fact, 14th is 7 off the bottom while Ossie finished 15th in a 22 team league so not bottom 6. We’ve never finished in the bottom 6 of the Premier League.

While the players you listed under Gross and Ossie were all great players in their heyday, they were at different points of their careers. For instance, Carr was a kid in 1997. Klinsmann was back for a few months and miles past his best. Teddy was injured for much of 1993/94. Mabbutt by 1997/98 was nearing retirement. Then you have to mention the likes of David Kersalke, Stuart Nethercott, Andy Gray, Kevin Scott, Colin Calderwood, Ian Walker, Paolo Tramezzani, Jason Cundy, Neale Fenn, Ronnie Rosenthal, Nicola Berti, Jason Dozzell, Andy Sinton and so on. All of whom played fairly regularly.

I’ll take your point on Ange but disagree. Hindsight and some daylight after he’s gone will maybe offer a clearer perspective. He did inherit a club who had challenged for Europe for pretty much every season since 2004 and has us 14th in the league. That’s a fact. Did it need rebuilding? Yeah, to an extent. But Porro, Romero, Bentancur, Bissouma, Kulusevski and Son were all very well established before he got here.

I don’t believe he’s managed the likes of Bergvall and Gray very well either. They’ve played but played when we’d no other choice really. For me, Ange doesnt get much credit for that because he had no choice and results couldn’t really have been any worse with them in the side (not their fault I must add). His management of Spence, like Conte, has been poor and epitomised by the fact he wasn’t even in the EL squad originally despite looking like arguably our best player when he has been forced to play him.

There are extenuating circumstances for Ange. But none of them, absolutely none of them, justify a league position of 14th and 15 defeats. Like with Comolli, some may look back when we rise again and give him credit for his work here. I don’t think I’ll be one of them. To paraphrase Ange, “sometimes, when you look outside and it’s raining, that’s the rain mate. It’s not anything else.” When you’re sitting 14th in the league, that’s mainly on the manager IMO.

 

[Yiddo]

Unfortunately we have him until the end of the season regardless of what happens in the Europa league.

 

[Muttley]

Unfortunately we have him until the end of the season regardless of what happens in the Europa league.

Yeah, it's gonna be a tough 10 weeks ahead. If it's only 10 weeks, we can just about live with that.

Munn said his MO is to create an environment where his people can perform well in their roles. Since the Utd game, that will have definitely been the case for Ange. Munn will now need to be true to his words and prepare the P45.

 

[billyiddo]

Leicester’s PL games since 9th Dec:



LLLLLLLWLLLLLLL