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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 84 51.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 78 48.1%
  • Total voters
    162
Muttley said:
It's quite intriguing finding this new normal after the astronomical investment in the squad over the last 2-3 years. Even with a few missing and another few not at match fitness, our 20 man match day squad looked really good. Night and day from just one week ago. It's probably not even fair to compare what we have today with any of our recent managers. None of them had anywhere near the resources that we've given Ange.

For me, there was only one player out there that wouldn't ideally be in a starting eleven and that was Davies. He did OK, but still had those moments where he came up very short. It's even tougher for him when he's expected to play offside on the halfway line as well knowing he has no pace to get back if it doesn't work.

I hope we're not in a position where we have 6 centre half choices and 4 of them are out even if it's very short term. Fingers crossed on Danso.

For me, we're not quite back at the point where Ange can be judged on how this thing looks with a full(ish) compliment of players.

Next step is to close that 7 point gap and get ourselves back in the next cluster of teams.
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Hefty investments but a lot of our 2nd eleven have little Premier League experience. Also many are academy aged. Spence is performing but he's 22. It's a strongest squad for a while but it's also the most inexperienced...perhaps in our history.
 
Lilbaz said:
Spence is 24. We have 21 players over 23.
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yeah but you ought to be thinking more about the "useable" depth on the bencyh
- kinski 21, udogie 22, gray 18, sarr 22, bergvall 19, moore 17, tel 19, odobert 20

of these lot maybe udogie has sufficient top level experience, the rest are just learning as they go along and we've had to rely on this lot for a bit longer than any team would.

even more reason for ange to rotate the first eleven more, earlier in the season, to avoid injuries and over reliance on a young and inexperienced lot
 
Raziel said:
Squad is strong, we are missing that Kane, Son (prime version), Bale, VDV, the real game changer in first 11. A few in squad could become that, but likely still a couple of years off. We need to look at that kind of addition in summer.

Re Ange, I'm not sure anything has changed, can this system ever be consistent enough to push the club on?
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Oh absolutely. We've essentially lost both our "superstars" with Kane going and Son declining. We need another one to either come in or step up to that kind of level.

Fully agreed on your question too. That's one of the biggest one's. But squad depth is probably one of the necessary ingredients for that to happen.
 
metalgear said:
yeah but you ought to be thinking more about the "useable" depth on the bencyh
- kinski 21, udogie 22, gray 18, sarr 22, bergvall 19, moore 17, tel 19, odobert 20

of these lot maybe udogie has sufficient top level experience, the rest are just learning as they go along and we've had to rely on this lot for a bit longer than any team would.

even more reason for ange to rotate the first eleven more, earlier in the season, to avoid injuries and over reliance on a young and inexperienced lot
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Are you talking about the squad as in the squad we have when most of our players are fit, or the squad with our current injuries?

I think most teams would have a fairly inexperienced bench with 5-6 senior players out. Our squad is on the young side, seemingly by design. We've needed young players to take responsibility and mostly they've done just that. Over time I think that will be a good thing.

Will be interesting to see both how the squad looks and how much Ange rotates for the rest of the season.
 
metalgear said:
Hefty investments but a lot of our 2nd eleven have little Premier League experience. Also many are academy aged. Spence is performing but he's 22. It's a strongest squad for a while but it's also the most inexperienced...perhaps in our history.
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This is why for me many over rate our squad. We have invested heavily in potential - So many of these young players start here as unknowns and look really good, and fans think they are great. Then these players' performances tail off which is natural because of their age and the opposition figuring out their game, yet its the managers fault rather than accepting the fluctuations in consistency these players tend to give. With the exception of Gray, all of our young players are inconsistent - which is fine. But at this stage, we have a POTENTIALLY really good squad - its not there yet. And for the love of GHod please invest in a quality, established CM boss.....
 
billyiddo said:
Bergvall & Moore were the only real inexperienced players at the beginning of the season.
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I think it depends how you define 'experience' versus who we signed in the summer. Both Gray and Bergvall were 'money' signings, both were for the future, and neither had Premier League experience. I'd include Spence in the 'prem inexperienced' group. And obviously Moore (as you listed).
 
billyiddo said:
Bergvall & Moore were the only real inexperienced players at the beginning of the season.
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Lets put it this way then, regardless of age when it comes to the discussion of quality of the squad. Forgetting age, too many of our players are inconsistent and this stems back to before Ange was here. Which players would you hang your hat on to put in a performance for us?

Vicario? Nope, he was having some shockers pre injury
Romero? Can look world class one game, an accident waiting to happen the next
VDV? As a few have highlighted, he isn't the greatest defender but does have pace to cover for this - lets say for argument sake he is consistent enough
Udogie? Nope. Has been as poor for as long as he's been good for us, but he's young no big deal. Spence perhaps will prove to be, but bigger sample size needed
Porro? Overall Id say he's been consistently good
Our CMs? None of them, and would think over time Gray and Bergvall plus hopefully an established CM
Kulu, of course has been great all in all.
Don't really need to go through our forwards, we all know they aren't great. Solanke I would say has been consistently good though.

Our squad is mostly a blend of past their best or potentially really good. There aren't many genuine quality players who you know are going to give us consistent 8/10 or even 7/10 performances at the moment.....
 
harr1984 said:
Our squad is mostly a blend of past their best or potentially really good. There aren't many genuine quality players who you know are going to give us consistent 8/10 or even 7/10 performances at the moment.....
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Our squad is a blend of players in or going in to their peak years and some 18-24 year olds who are genuinely regarded as players with exciting futures ahead of them. That's a good blend. It's the same sort of blend we have done well with previously and a much better looking squad than the one we accumulated post Poch. We're not a team that's going to threaten the title currently and like all teams below that level our players can be inconsistent.
 
billyiddo said:
Our squad is a blend of players in or going in to their peak years and some 18-24 year olds who are genuinely regarded as players with exciting futures ahead of them. That's a good blend. It's the same sort of blend we have done well with previously and a much better looking squad than the one we accumulated post Poch. We're not a team that's going to threaten the title currently and like all teams below that level our players can be inconsistent.
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The blend is fine, it's the players in that bracket of approaching their peak years and how good they are that is up for debate. I guess pointless getting into specifics debating who is/isn't good enough, but for the summer I think there are two positions where we should target as you put it players approaching their peak years - CM and a right wing forward. Add that, along with our younger players having a years PL experience and I think we will have a healthy looking squad for next season....
 
harr1984 said:
Lets put it this way then, regardless of age when it comes to the discussion of quality of the squad. Forgetting age, too many of our players are inconsistent and this stems back to before Ange was here. Which players would you hang your hat on to put in a performance for us?

Vicario? Nope, he was having some shockers pre injury
Romero? Can look world class one game, an accident waiting to happen the next
VDV? As a few have highlighted, he isn't the greatest defender but does have pace to cover for this - lets say for argument sake he is consistent enough
Udogie? Nope. Has been as poor for as long as he's been good for us, but he's young no big deal. Spence perhaps will prove to be, but bigger sample size needed
Porro? Overall Id say he's been consistently good
Our CMs? None of them, and would think over time Gray and Bergvall plus hopefully an established CM
Kulu, of course has been great all in all.
Don't really need to go through our forwards, we all know they aren't great. Solanke I would say has been consistently good though.

Our squad is mostly a blend of past their best or potentially really good. There aren't many genuine quality players who you know are going to give us consistent 8/10 or even 7/10 performances at the moment.....
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The only real "past his best" player now is Son imo. Maybe Davies?

Quite a lot of those early twenties players who are already very good, but can have some realistic hope that they get better and/or more consistent. Then also quite a few with loads of potential, some of them already performing at a really impressive level.
 
billyiddo said:
Our squad is a blend of players in or going in to their peak years and some 18-24 year olds who are genuinely regarded as players with exciting futures ahead of them. That's a good blend. It's the same sort of blend we have done well with previously and a much better looking squad than the one we accumulated post Poch. We're not a team that's going to threaten the title currently and like all teams below that level our players can be inconsistent.
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I think our squad is “good” but we don’t have any standout players in any position, particularly in CM or the forwards. If we had to name our best starting 11, I’d bet the midfield would be wildly different from one poster to the next.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think our squad is “good” but we don’t have any standout players in any position, particularly in CM or the forwards. If we had to name our best starting 11, I’d bet the midfield would be wildly different from one poster to the next.
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True, but if we all put our second elevens against our best elevens, how big would the gap be? Compared to a one or two seasons back, it's actually reduced enormously. In midfield and attack, it's becoming barely noticeable.

If we fast forward a year and more youngsters and signings become as relevant as today's squad, then we're in seriously good shape. It feels like squad depth is almost as important as 1st team superstars nowadays. Having both would be nice though.
 
Muttley said:
True, but if we all put our second elevens against our best elevens, how big would the gap be? Compared to a one or two seasons back, it's actually reduced enormously. In midfield and attack, it's becoming barely noticeable.

If we fast forward a year and more youngsters and signings become as relevant as today's squad, then we're in seriously good shape. It feels like squad depth is almost as important as 1st team superstars nowadays. Having both would be nice though.
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The squad may be in good shape but the first 11 doesn’t have any standout players, particularly in CM or the forwards where you need a bit of quality. The forwards don’t create a whole lot so it mainly falls to Maddison and Kulu.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The squad may be in good shape but the first 11 doesn’t have any standout players, particularly in CM or the forwards where you need a bit of quality. The forwards don’t create a whole lot so it mainly falls to Maddison and Kulu.
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Yeah. Definitely missing that Kane, prime Son, player. The one opposition will really worry about, the one you can trust to show up with a moment of magic no matter how the game goes.

Really could do with one or two of those...
 
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