Ange in or out?

[DeanoAustin]

That's a good question. Any potential new manager would be joining a club with many injuries, and the players that are fit have their heads down and don't really understand what's expected from them. The existing manager has made such a massive mess of things, and there are supporters who still can't see it. However, on the positive side he would be managing a team in arguably the world's best football stadium with incredible training facilities. Once the majority of the squad are fit he could have them playing football in a way they don't get continually injured, and I believe next season we could potentially be top four. The ingredients are there, it's just Ange is a dreadful cook

Managers have massive egos, they have to in order to do the job. They won’t care too much about how badly Ange has done if they think the fundamentals are there to be successful and Levy offers them enough cash.

I think Levy and his reputation may become a problem for prospective managers at some point though if it hasn’t already.

 

[Mikey10]

I can only think the reason he hasn't been sacked is because Levy can't find a replacement

It’s a bit more complex than that imo, although I think that plays a part.

I think he’s trying to say to prospective managers that he doesn’t always sack when things go awry. The fact that he’s had a fair amount of grief regarding sacking Mourinho days before a cup final is probably on his mind too, which is why I think Ange will be here until the Liverpool semi final - and, if we win that, probably until the final at least, unless the gap to the relegation places gets down to 4 or 5 points.

He also staked a fair bit on Ange as a project manager, so he’ll feel that getting rid of him sends a negative message about where we are overall - and about his stewardship.

 

[Gutter Boy]

This shows how stats without context are absolutely useless.

That Ange has had 2 full pre-seasons and a fresh start, whereas Mason has had to rapidly turn around two broken teams battered by toxic managers?

 

[RigorMortis]

It’s a bit more complex than that imo, although I think that plays a part.

I think he’s trying to say to prospective managers that he doesn’t always sack when things go awry. The fact that he’s had a fair amount of grief regarding sacking Mourinho days before a cup final is probably on his mind too, which is why I think Ange will be here until the Liverpool semi final - and, if we win that, probably until the final at least, unless the gap to the relegation places gets down to 4 or 5 points.

He also staked a fair bit on Ange as a project manager, so he’ll feel that getting rid of him sends a negative message about where we are overall - and about his stewardship.

This.

Levy is actually aware of the negative narrative around him which is only growing.

Sticking with Ange in many ways is a win win situation for him, although a negative one for the club.

If he sticks with him and some how our unloveable grumpy aussie grinch somehow turns it around, he can point to how he stuck with him

If in the more likely scenario it all ends in tears, Levy can demonstrate he gave the man a chance and what more could he do

 

[thfcsteff]

That Ange has had 2 full pre-seasons and a fresh start, whereas Mason has had to rapidly turn around two broken teams battered by toxic managers?

Indeed and fair to him (I am a fan of his). I think it is also true to suggest that a managerial career of 13 games total is perhaps not a clear enough sample size to get too deep into 'win percentages'...

 

[Muttley]

That Ange has had 2 full pre-seasons and a fresh start, whereas Mason has had to rapidly turn around two broken teams battered by toxic managers?

His biggest challenge was to unscramble players heads and make things simple again. That is what the job will be again. Mason actually let his players play. He trusted them and didn't try to turn them into robots. I still love the Leicester and Leeds end of season fixtures. 2 of my favourite games in recent years.

 

[braineclipse]

Do you think we are more attractive than when we hired Ange or less attractive?

Here and now slightly less attractive. Loads of injuries, potential relegation battle looming. No pre season to work on the players, just game after game.

Overall more or as attractive. Better squad being the primary difference (including not having our best player on the way out).

 

[DeanoAustin]

This.

Levy is actually aware of the negative narrative around him which is only growing.

Sticking with Ange in many ways is a win win situation for him, although a negative one for the club.

If he sticks with him and some how our unloveable grumpy aussie grinch somehow turns it around, he can point to how he stuck with him

If in the more likely scenario it all ends in tears, Levy can demonstrate he gave the man a chance and what more could he do

Levy’s PR is in the toilet and, while I doubt he spends all day worrying about it, I’d imagine it does bother him and the documentary did sort of illustrate that a bit for me.

The only way his PR doesn’t get worse is if Ange turns it around and is successful. Every other outcome results in the anti-Levy camp growing and disliking him even more.

The absolute worst outcome is relegation so when that becomes a serious worry, Ange is gone regardless. We’re not quite there yet.

So Levy’s options are:

1. Fire Ange and have every charge that’s ever been laid against him regurgitated (“sacked at the first real sign of trouble, a week before a semi final we were winning in and he never backed the manager”).
2. Wait it out and if Ange succeeds, Levy can claim he stood by his man and knew what he was doing. If Ange gets knocked out of the cups and our league form continues to keep us bottom half but not relegated, at least Levy can say “I gave him a very fair crack of the whip”. He’ll still get battered by the fans but maybe not as much.

Levy is only left with no option if relegation becomes a really serious prospect. Then the value of the club is under serious threat and he won’t care too much about his PR if that happens.

 

[veryoldspur]

It’s a bit more complex than that imo, although I think that plays a part.

I think he’s trying to say to prospective managers that he doesn’t always sack when things go awry. The fact that he’s had a fair amount of grief regarding sacking Mourinho days before a cup final is probably on his mind too, which is why I think Ange will be here until the Liverpool semi final - and, if we win that, probably until the final at least, unless the gap to the relegation places gets down to 4 or 5 points.

He also staked a fair bit on Ange as a project manager, so he’ll feel that getting rid of him sends a negative message about where we are overall - and about his stewardship.

I think I agree with with that. Only Levy knows at what point he will sack him, but my guess is the same as yours, the Liverpool game.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Levy’s PR is in the toilet and, while I doubt he spends all day worrying about it, I’d imagine it does bother him and the documentary did sort of illustrate that a bit for me.

The only way his PR doesn’t get worse is if Ange turns it around and is successful. Every other outcome results in the anti-Levy camp growing and disliking him even more.

The absolute worst outcome is relegation so when that becomes a serious worry, Ange is gone regardless. We’re not quite there yet.

So Levy’s options are:

1. Fire Ange and have every charge that’s ever been laid against him regurgitated (“sacked at the first real sign of trouble, a week before a semi final we were winning in and he never backed the manager”).
2. Wait it out and if Ange succeeds, Levy can claim he stood by his man and knew what he was doing. If Ange gets knocked out of the cups and our league form continues to keep us bottom half but not relegated, at least Levy can say “I gave him a very fair crack of the whip”. He’ll still get battered by the fans but maybe not as much.

Levy is only left with no option if relegation becomes a really serious prospect. Then the value of the club is under serious threat and he won’t care too much about his PR if tha happens.

There should be option 3 see if Ange sorts it out but we slip into the bottom three and are relegated?

All the Ange in fans are just burying their heads in the sand.

Also, first real sign of danger? This has been going on for over a year.

 

[veryoldspur]

Levy’s PR is in the toilet and, while I doubt he spends all day worrying about it, I’d imagine it does bother him and the documentary did sort of illustrate that a bit for me.

The only way his PR doesn’t get worse is if Ange turns it around and is successful. Every other outcome results in the anti-Levy camp growing and disliking him even more.

The absolute worst outcome is relegation so when that becomes a serious worry, Ange is gone regardless. We’re not quite there yet.

So Levy’s options are:

1. Fire Ange and have every charge that’s ever been laid against him regurgitated (“sacked at the first real sign of trouble, a week before a semi final we were winning in and he never backed the manager”).
2. Wait it out and if Ange succeeds, Levy can claim he stood by his man and knew what he was doing. If Ange gets knocked out of the cups and our league form continues to keep us bottom half but not relegated, at least Levy can say “I gave him a very fair crack of the whip”. He’ll still get battered by the fans but maybe not as much.

Levy is only left with no option if relegation becomes a really serious prospect. Then the value of the club is under serious threat and he won’t care too much about his PR if that happens.

The reality is that if he sacked Ange then a couple of months later we go on a winning run, the fans would magically forget all about Levy. Like I said in another post, I am not a fan of Levy, but we are the 3rd highest net spenders in the last 5 years, he built us the stadium and training facilities, and he brought in two of the world's best managers. It isn't him who picks the players on a weekly basis, it isn't him who is partially responsible for their injuries, and it isn't him who has the team playing as if they are on a school playground.

 

[RigorMortis]

Levy’s PR is in the toilet and, while I doubt he spends all day worrying about it, I’d imagine it does bother him and the documentary did sort of illustrate that a bit for me.

The only way his PR doesn’t get worse is if Ange turns it around and is successful. Every other outcome results in the anti-Levy camp growing and disliking him even more.

The absolute worst outcome is relegation so when that becomes a serious worry, Ange is gone regardless. We’re not quite there yet.

So Levy’s options are:

1. Fire Ange and have every charge that’s ever been laid against him regurgitated (“sacked at the first real sign of trouble, a week before a semi final we were winning in and he never backed the manager”).
2. Wait it out and if Ange succeeds, Levy can claim he stood by his man and knew what he was doing. If Ange gets knocked out of the cups and our league form continues to keep us bottom half but not relegated, at least Levy can say “I gave him a very fair crack of the whip”. He’ll still get battered by the fans but maybe not as much.

Levy is only left with no option if relegation becomes a really serious prospect. Then the value of the club is under serious threat and he won’t care too much about his PR if that happens.

Yeah agreed

If relegation becomes an even more realistic possibility than it is now he will pull the trigger.
For now I believe he’s burying his head in the sand and hoping Ange somehow shows a modicum of the qualitythat has been in short supply during his tenure as our manager; competency

 

[DeanoAustin]

The reality is that if he sacked Ange then a couple of months later we go on a winning run, the fans would magically forget all about Levy. Like I said in another post, I am not a fan of Levy, but we are the 3rd highest net spenders in the last 5 years, he built us the stadium and training facilities, and he brought in two of the world's best managers. It isn't him who picks the players on a weekly basis, it isn't him who is partially responsible for their injuries, and it isn't him who has the team playing as if they are on a school playground.

Levy has been getting brick on the Mourinho decision even when Conte and Ange were flying relatively high and rightly so IMO. The noise might die down if we are going well but it won't go away and it'll reappear much more loudly when things do go awry again.

 

[Batspur]

The reality is that if he sacked Ange then a couple of months later we go on a winning run, the fans would magically forget all about Levy. Like I said in another post, I am not a fan of Levy, but we are the 3rd highest net spenders in the last 5 years, he built us the stadium and training facilities, and he brought in two of the world's best managers. It isn't him who picks the players on a weekly basis, it isn't him who is partially responsible for their injuries, and it isn't him who has the team playing as if they are on a school playground.

This is the essence of failure. How can we spend so much with such brick players? How has this constantly happened for the last quarter of a century? We literally gave away our highest ever signing on a free FFS.

25 years of pretty much brick signings with a few unexpected wins. But the vast majority have been abject failures. That's on one person. The one person who has been in control for a quarter of a century.

The stadium....I could give you a billion pounds and you would have the same outcome as this clown. It's not hard to spend a billion quid and get something good in return. He delivered it 2 years late and 450 million pounds over budget.

That's insane. In the real world the minimum yous get is sacked. More likely you'd be being investigated for corruption.

Complete failure of a man. It's pure nepotism he is where he is.

 

[Batspur]

Managers have massive egos, they have to in order to do the job. They won’t care too much about how badly Ange has done if they think the fundamentals are there to be successful and Levy offers them enough cash.

I think Levy and his reputation may become a problem for prospective managers at some point though if it hasn’t already.

Potter turned him down last round and Howe the time before.

 

[DeanoAustin]

This is the essence of failure. How can we spend so much with such brick players? How has this constantly happened for the last quarter of a century? We literally gave away our highest ever signing on a free FFS.

25 years of pretty much brick signings with a few unexpected wins. But the vast majority have been abject failures. That's on one person. The one person who has been in control for a quarter of a century.

The stadium....I could give you a billion pounds and you would have the same outcome as this clown. It's not hard to spend a billion quid and get something good in return. He delivered it 2 years late and 450 million pounds over budget.

That's insane. In the real world the minimum yous get is sacked. More likely you'd be being investigated for corruption.

Complete failure of a man. It's pure nepotism he is where he is.

A lot to unpack here but I seriously doubt that Levy identified Ndombele. He put up the transfer fee and very good wages. That's all you can ask of the chairman. If the player was a flop, that's on other people. Levy did his job.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This weekends fixtures will be even more negative for us
I don’t see us winning myself and im sure most would agree
But with Everton playing Lestah and I think Ipswich playing Southampton I can see us starting Sundays game below Everton and closer to Ipswich on points

 

[DeanoAustin]

Potter turned him down last round and Howe the time before.

Where you getting that from? Or is it just hearsay that suits your argument.

I seriously doubt Potter rejected us and turned up at West Ham. Whatever you think of Levy, their owners are much worse.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A lot to unpack here but I seriously doubt that Levy identified Ndombele. He put up the transfer fee and very good wages. That's all you can ask of the chairman. If the player was a flop, that's on other people. Levy did his job.

It’s also on the player don’t forget

 

[Lilbaz]

Its the same Clipboard nonsense that Chrissy Hughton used to get. No one understands what he does, so he must be brick. I just think anyone who criticises him has clearly never heard him speak, he's a hugely impressive person.

He should have taken the Anderlecht job when they came in for him a few months ago though, he needs to make that sort of step now

Think he needs a job in england first. Lot of good english managers fail abroad.