Ange in or out?

[thfcsteff]

What if that was his limit? He seems to have built a bit of a career as a nearly man - there comes a point where he either steps up or steps aside to allow us to look for someone who can.

He did very well to get us to where he did. He didn't step up.

We'll never know if it was because he was not given the chance.

 

[Kompakted]

What if that was his limit? He seems to have built a bit of a career as a nearly man - there comes a point where he either steps up or steps aside to allow us to look for someone who can.

He did very well to get us to where he did. He didn't step up.

The biggest problem with Poch is that he clearly wasn't very comfortable in working with a sporting director and he was given that "manager" job title after Mitchell left and the signings we made afterwards were all toilet. The "painful rebuild" was invested in, but N'Dombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon were rank bad buys and we pretty much lost all of our investment in them......I compare that to Ange. I think pretty much every player we've bought while he's been here has been of the required quality. He's just not used them very well.

 

[Bishop]

Can only assume that Postecoglou is relying too much on misinformation from his cobbled together bunch of coaches who do all the training.

How excited we were a couple of hours ago to see Davies back in at LCB so that Gray would finally get to play as CMF only to discover we’d mysteriously switched to a back 5 for the first time in Postecoglou’s tenure.

If he thought that switching to a back 5 could solve our defensive issues then why didn’t the gaffer try that when he had Romero and van de Ven available?

Desperation, it's an acknowledgment that his system isn't working and he doesn't know how stem the bleeding. Pit more defenders on, you can't possibly concede if you do that.

Yes, the Spence thing is very strange. Again, without further information I don't know what to say other than Spence has been rrally good since coming in. With regards to Reggie, in terms of resting a player for him absolutely, but I think we'd pay for it as Reggie looks a long way off proper match shape to me. Again, I don't see him in training so I don't know...

Reggie will be awful at this point but that's largely because we've given him no minutes and no time to get up to speed this season and that's purely on Ange. He's had game after game when he could have drafted him in. We even saw bloody Gray getting roasted at LB because Ange refused to give his actual backup LB a go. So I have 0 sympathy for him in that regard when the opportunity to have fresher FBs on both sides was available to him.

The thing is of course as the coach it is absolutely and entirely his prerogative who he selects. That just always comes with the caveat that your decisions have to work. It's especially galling if you avoid doing the obvious and logical course of action and your decision back fires. That's what's happening with him and that's why the fans have lost or are game by game losing their faith. We can all see it except him.

 

[thfcsteff]

Most of us will realise there is no intent there Steff, don’t be hard on yourself.

What was interesting, to me, was that last week it felt like the first attempt at … positing, dare I say … the other side of the fence ie Ange out. And it was a very short conversation as Milo said words to the effect of “I’m not the right person to ask [as I’m Ange in]”.

I have been close to asking in the pod thread in recent weeks what would have to happen for you to start questioning him, as it’s been very clear where you stand over the past few months, in spite of a clear deterioration in the underlying numbers, as, it must also be said, the underlying health of our squad. I think a conversation from you both about what would have to happen would be very interesting, it highly hypothetical.

For the record, he lost me today, for the points outlined above on him losing his nerve. His brain appears to be scrambled and for me, he’s reached his journey’s end. Not because he necessarily deserves to be sacked, I just don’t see him turning it around. The players looked totally and utterly bereft in that first half.

As ever a fine post.
I promise we will fully address your question on the pod.

 

[Robbo]

There are issues, major issues.

But you can't ignore the fact that we had six teenagers on the bench today, of which only one - 17 year old Mikey Moore, just back from a lengthy illness - have had any game time with the first team to speak of.

Only Reguilon (who, lets face it, isn't really good enough for where we wanna be) and Richie, just back from injury (after breaking down straight after his last comeback) were viable options from the bench, along with Moore.

Our options were extremely limited, and of those who started, several were visibly tired and/or not at the top of their game.

You cannot ignore this.

Yes, some of our injury problems is - at least from the outside - self inflicted. There have been times we should've rested key players. Something is definitely not right with our medical department. Ange should've been more pragmatic in terms of how we set up and how we play. Our starting formation today was a big mistake.

But you could put any manager in Ange's shoes today, and he would still struggle with what little he had to work with. IMO.

Given our current situation I don't think we'd see any instant improvement from a new manager. And I don't really believe there's much gain from mid season manager sackings in general, unless of course relegation is in play. Which it will be unless we turn things around.

I think Ange is walking a very thin line. If we lose to Leicester, I believe he'll be gone. Perhaps rightly so, even taking our massive injury woes into consideration.

But for now, I'm still Ange in. That could change.

 

[scaramanga]

We'll never know if it was because he was not given the chance.

He didn't do it anywhere else either.

 

[thfcsteff]

The biggest problem with Poch is that he clearly wasn't very comfortable in working with a sporting director and he was given that "manager" job title after Mitchell left and the signings we made afterwards were all toilet. The "painful rebuild" was invested in, but N'Dombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon were rank bad buys and we pretty much lost all of our investment in them......I compare that to Ange. I think pretty much every player we've bought while he's been here has been of the required quality. He's just not used them very well.

I think he was very happy working with Paul Mitchell, but once Mitchell quit over Mane and Winaldjum, it was (in hindsight) a time bomb because yeah, Hitchin wasn't bitchin'!

 

[thfcsteff]

He didn't do it anywhere else either.

I'll repeat, he never got the chance here. What he did elsewhere is irrelevant. Ours was a special sauce.

 

[scaramanga]

I'll repeat, he never got the chance here. What he did elsewhere is irrelevant. Ours was a special sauce.

Winners win. Nearly men nearly win.

He's been close but no further everywhere he's gone.

Doesn't seem as if there's a queue of Europe's top clubs scrambling to employ him either.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There are issues, major issues.

But you can't ignore the fact that we had six teenagers on the bench today, of which only one - 17 year old Mikey Moore, just back from a lengthy illness - have had any game time with the first team to speak of.

Only Reguilon (who, lets face it, isn't really good enough for where we wanna be) and Richie, just back from injury (after breaking down straight after his last comeback) were viable options from the bench, along with Moore.

Our options were extremely limited, and of those who started, several were visibly tired and/or not at the top of their game.

You cannot ignore this.

Yes, some of our injury problems is - at least from the outside - self inflicted. There have been times we should've rested key players. Something is definitely not right with our medical department. Ange should've been more pragmatic in terms of how we set up and how we play. Our starting formation today was a big mistake.

But you could put any manager in Ange's shoes today, and he would still struggle with what little he had to work with. IMO.

Given our current situation I don't think we'd see any instant improvement from a new manager. And I don't really believe there's much gain from mid season manager sackings in general, unless of course relegation is in play. Which it will be unless we turn things around.

I think Ange is walking a very thin line. If we lose to Leicester, I believe he'll be gone. Perhaps rightly so, even taking our massive injury woes into consideration.

But for now, I'm still Ange in. That could change.

Fully agree on injuries
But he still picked a team that never ever works
Stop playing players in roles they can’t do
It’s awful management and something every manager tries just before their end

 

[Chrissivad]

I’ve just checked the table, his first game for Aberdeen, he scored 42 goals and they have just won the title.

First game, came on as a sub and made an error for Rangers 3

Was on the bench again for the 2nd game in a cup game Vs Elgin.

 

[thfcsteff]

Winners win. Nearly men nearly win.

He's been close but no further everywhere he's gone.

Doesn't seem as if there's a queue of Europe's top clubs scrambling to employ him either.

The lake is now closed. Pack up your rod!

 

[GlennGoddle]

No idea but he is at aberdeen

Done his hamstring going down the A90

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

There are issues, major issues.

But you can't ignore the fact that we had six teenagers on the bench today, of which only one - 17 year old Mikey Moore, just back from a lengthy illness - have had any game time with the first team to speak of.

Only Reguilon (who, lets face it, isn't really good enough for where we wanna be) and Richie, just back from injury (after breaking down straight after his last comeback) were viable options from the bench, along with Moore.

Our options were extremely limited, and of those who started, several were visibly tired and/or not at the top of their game.

You cannot ignore this.

Yes, some of our injury problems is - at least from the outside - self inflicted. There have been times we should've rested key players. Something is definitely not right with our medical department. Ange should've been more pragmatic in terms of how we set up and how we play. Our starting formation today was a big mistake.

But you could put any manager in Ange's shoes today, and he would still struggle with what little he had to work with. IMO.

Given our current situation I don't think we'd see any instant improvement from a new manager. And I don't really believe there's much gain from mid season manager sackings in general, unless of course relegation is in play. Which it will be unless we turn things around.

I think Ange is walking a very thin line. If we lose to Leicester, I believe he'll be gone. Perhaps rightly so, even taking our massive injury woes into consideration.

But for now, I'm still Ange in. That could change.

So Reggie was good enough for us, Conte and 5th but not good enough for where we want to be, yet we are 15th?

 

[Robbo]

Fully agree on injuries
But he still picked a team that never ever works
Stop playing players in roles they can’t do
It’s awful management and something every manager tries just before their end

He did. And that could very well be the end of him.

I would like to see what he could do with a close to fully fit squad of his players, though. While he's made several odd decisons, and there are a few alarm bells, I still don't think he's properly shown what his tactics and style is all about. Which of course can be as much his own fault as anything else.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He did. And that could very well be the end of him.

I would like to see what he could do with a close to fully fit squad of his players, though. While he's made several odd decisons, and there are a few alarm bells, I still don't think he's properly shown what his tactics and style is all about. Which of course can be as much his own fault as anything else.

He hasn’t
And he won’t get that chance IMO
has very Gerry Francis vibes about it

 

[Mcfee]

Most of us will realise there is no intent there Steff, don’t be hard on yourself.

What was interesting, to me, was that last week it felt like the first attempt at … positing, dare I say … the other side of the fence ie Ange out. And it was a very short conversation as Milo said words to the effect of “I’m not the right person to ask [as I’m Ange in]”.

I have been close to asking in the pod thread in recent weeks what would have to happen for you to start questioning him, as it’s been very clear where you stand over the past few months, in spite of a clear deterioration in the underlying numbers, as, it must also be said, the underlying health of our squad. I think a conversation from you both about what would have to happen would be very interesting, it highly hypothetical.

For the record, he lost me today, for the points outlined above on him losing his nerve. His brain appears to be scrambled and for me, he’s reached his journey’s end. Not because he necessarily deserves to be sacked, I just don’t see him turning it around. The players looked totally and utterly bereft in that first half.

Thanks @DaveT316 for articulating my thoughts in a far more coherent way than I could.

 

[Robbo]

So Reggie was good enough for us, Conte and 5th but not good enough for where we want to be, yet we are 15th?

I don't think he's a good fit for us or a very smart player, no. I like him, I really do, and you could make an argument for using whatever players you have available, but today I'd rather have Davies or Spence at LB over him.

 

[Robbo]

He hasn’t
And he won’t get that chance IMO
has very Gerry Francis vibes about it

Yeah, it certainly looks like he won’t. It would be a shame, IMO.

In the longer term, as long as we avoid relegation, I'm not as worried about Spurs. We have a very talented squad, and if whoever takes over for Ange has a philosophy aligned to the stregths of our squad, we could still become a great side. Dealing with what we've been dealing with this season, should only make the youngsters stronger.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

He did. And that could very well be the end of him.

I would like to see what he could do with a close to fully fit squad of his players, though. While he's made several odd decisons, and there are a few alarm bells, I still don't think he's properly shown what his tactics and style is all about. Which of course can be as much his own fault as anything else.

Lost to Saudi Sportswashing Machine away. We were shocking then

We also lost to Arsenal, Chelsea at-home

The man can't do jack with a fully fit squad, so waiting for him to do so will not change the results

We are too easy to play against and don't have the players for his style, you'd need the best players in the world, think Bayern, Real Madrid, City, Liverpool for it to work and it's not going to happen under Levy. We have Johnson, Son, Solanke, Kulusevski, wth Sarr and Bissouma behind them

Probably in current European football 50th best team