• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 99 70.7%
  • Out

    Votes: 41 29.3%

  • Total voters
    140
I agree -- but, having just gotten back to 2-1 I don't think we need to be that agressive right before half time.
when is angeball not aggressive?

when we're leading in the last ten minutes of the game we have 9 players in front of their goal who have no legs to run back when a counter starts.

we've been sucker punched so many times and got worse once we lost vdv.
 
Udogie is at times lackadaisical in his defending. I don't think it is fatigue. I think it is his decision making. He does some very good things and can defend well but sometimes the decision and approach he takes leaves one wondering.

I agree about his decison making at times, he is still a kid really and as he matures he will hopefully overcome that.
 
I agree about his decison making at times, he is still a kid really and as he matures he will hopefully overcome that.

I think my Udogie frustration is bumbling round the pitch like Mr Blobby and giving pointless free-kicks away. He is too eager to get the ball and needs to temper his aggression. I've seen so many PL players just stand between him and the ball and let him take them out.
 
I think my Udogie frustration is bumbling round the pitch like Mr Blobby and giving pointless free-kicks away. He is too eager to get the ball and needs to temper his aggression. I've seen so many PL players just stand between him and the ball and let him take them out.

I do see your point [ bit harsh with the Mr Blobby comparison though], as i say he is still a kid so lets hope he comes through ok.
 
Just to say, I support the club first and Ange second :)

Anyway...Ange has been very clear about he wants us to play our football and how he wants us to approach games. He is not a 'cone' manager in the sense of, say, Conte, who would literally demand that players learned exactly where to stand and where to move at specifc moments in matches, and would blast players for being a couple of yards off. Ange wants players to learn the phiolosophy and also learn how to control games.

I have found it interesting to see some people and pundits say Ange would be 'mad ' if players went long. This is clearly not the case. Romero pings them, Vic sometimes does, Kinsky we can see is almost Pirlo-esque. It's about decisions. Where do those balls work, versus where are they simply to 'get us out of a moment'? Similarly, I've read lots about how we play in one gear. Clearly not true. We have sometimes been far too patient for me, sitting and sitting, lateral movements trying to wait for the moment, almost showing a lack of desire to affect the game by taking. chance.

I believe Ange wants this young side to learn when to seek and when to be smarter within the remit. The FBs have been attacking a little less, but it looks as though the players themselves are working through their decision-making as to when to go and when not. Critically, when they DON'T recently, they have not lacked positive intent; they aren't sitting too deep and they aren't in some sort of hard defensive shape. They're adjusting 7-10 yards and still leaving themselves in place to go front-foot the split second it makes sense.

IMO the players are left with a certain degree of autonomy -albeit obviously the coaches must be offering, err, coaching- to find the balance THEMSELVES between all-out and finding balance. Ange wants to control the ball and thus the match. I feel this season we're making up the hard yards in learning that.

I really feel we have had some disasterous luck since November. I knew we'd pay a big, big fudging price for Vic's injury, and we did/have. It's been discussed why, but IMO, and through no fault of his own because he is who he is, Forster has cost us many points. Again, he has given everything he can, but there is a lot which he cannot do. I further feel we have deserved much more fromm this horror spell...

...the key for me is that we did not fold for 'short-term gain' versus the players seeing that Ange will not throw people under the bus for making mistakes. The ONLY time ha has called a player out has been when they've failed to show application. It's significant.

I remain of the view that this season is about completing that lerning curve and squad strength, that everything we're doing will mature next season. If we get a trophy this season it would be fantastic but as long as the growth of these players -and our squad- continues, that's what I want to see.

There's been some great discussions recently, long may they continue, but here's to how players like Gray, Bergvall, Spence, Deki, Solankle and Pedro continue to develop as game controllers, dictators and leaders. The Gray/Bergvall sum total 32 years old ascension learning curve has been joyous. Audere Est Facere!!!

Don't mean to give the short answer (as there a lot of points in that), a few things for me

- Yes, Ange's system is about players making decisions in the moment, is the space in front of you as simple example? And yes, that is aligned to some principles over using width, pressing high, creating overloads.
- There is always a balance between dying for your principles and staying true to intent/vision, I think the club is ok with results (taking into consideration all the context), but he has to make sure the wheels don't fall off, keep some wins coming
- The piece for me that is highlight, I was pushed hard opinion wise when Ange went after Werner (still think it was wrong call) publicly, to me that was slip to a Jose/Conte feel pressure moment.

Fundamentally I'm still not sold on managers hitting a sustained spiral and being able to correct and grow from there (sample size of that is non existent, partially because none really get the chance), Ange has a lot of context with rebuild, injuries, decision to invest in youth, etc.

What I give him for now, is even in the depth of brick results, there is no question that the squad is still giving him everything, these guys are running themselves to exhaustion/injury for him, that counts for something, that is perhaps the counter to my previous point.
 
Just to say, I support the club first and Ange second :)

Anyway...Ange has been very clear about he wants us to play our football and how he wants us to approach games. He is not a 'cone' manager in the sense of, say, Conte, who would literally demand that players learned exactly where to stand and where to move at specifc moments in matches, and would blast players for being a couple of yards off. Ange wants players to learn the phiolosophy and also learn how to control games.

I have found it interesting to see some people and pundits say Ange would be 'mad ' if players went long. This is clearly not the case. Romero pings them, Vic sometimes does, Kinsky we can see is almost Pirlo-esque. It's about decisions. Where do those balls work, versus where are they simply to 'get us out of a moment'? Similarly, I've read lots about how we play in one gear. Clearly not true. We have sometimes been far too patient for me, sitting and sitting, lateral movements trying to wait for the moment, almost showing a lack of desire to affect the game by taking. chance.

I believe Ange wants this young side to learn when to seek and when to be smarter within the remit. The FBs have been attacking a little less, but it looks as though the players themselves are working through their decision-making as to when to go and when not. Critically, when they DON'T recently, they have not lacked positive intent; they aren't sitting too deep and they aren't in some sort of hard defensive shape. They're adjusting 7-10 yards and still leaving themselves in place to go front-foot the split second it makes sense.

IMO the players are left with a certain degree of autonomy -albeit obviously the coaches must be offering, err, coaching- to find the balance THEMSELVES between all-out and finding balance. Ange wants to control the ball and thus the match. I feel this season we're making up the hard yards in learning that.

I really feel we have had some disasterous luck since November. I knew we'd pay a big, big fudging price for Vic's injury, and we did/have. It's been discussed why, but IMO, and through no fault of his own because he is who he is, Forster has cost us many points. Again, he has given everything he can, but there is a lot which he cannot do. I further feel we have deserved much more fromm this horror spell...

...the key for me is that we did not fold for 'short-term gain' versus the players seeing that Ange will not throw people under the bus for making mistakes. The ONLY time ha has called a player out has been when they've failed to show application. It's significant.

I remain of the view that this season is about completing that lerning curve and squad strength, that everything we're doing will mature next season. If we get a trophy this season it would be fantastic but as long as the growth of these players -and our squad- continues, that's what I want to see.

There's been some great discussions recently, long may they continue, but here's to how players like Gray, Bergvall, Spence, Deki, Solankle and Pedro continue to develop as game controllers, dictators and leaders. The Gray/Bergvall sum total 32 years old ascension learning curve has been joyous. Audere Est Facere!!!

I get the premise of your post but I disagree with the idea that Ange wants the players to grow into the system and give them autonomy to pick and choose the best moments. I don't know if you saw it, but in one of his earliest interviews last season he said to paraphrase him that "if his system is successful it will appear as if the players have lots of freedom to play but actually his playstyle is very constructed and systematic"

That's not to say that he wouldn't allow any degree of freedom but he was quite clear that the freedom is a cascade and instead it all very constructed.

Which makes sense to me because even from the earliest days I think we can say we can see a consistent pattern of play and despite some players lacking exquisite technique the actual movement and shape pretty much always works.
 
Don't mean to give the short answer (as there a lot of points in that), a few things for me

- Yes, Ange's system is about players making decisions in the moment, is the space in front of you as simple example? And yes, that is aligned to some principles over using width, pressing high, creating overloads.
- There is always a balance between dying for your principles and staying true to intent/vision, I think the club is ok with results (taking into consideration all the context), but he has to make sure the wheels don't fall off, keep some wins coming
- The piece for me that is highlight, I was pushed hard opinion wise when Ange went after Werner (still think it was wrong call) publicly, to me that was slip to a Jose/Conte feel pressure moment.

Fundamentally I'm still not sold on managers hitting a sustained spiral and being able to correct and grow from there (sample size of that is non existent, partially because none really get the chance), Ange has a lot of context with rebuild, injuries, decision to invest in youth, etc.

What I give him for now, is even in the depth of brick results, there is no question that the squad is still giving him everything, these guys are running themselves to exhaustion/injury for him, that counts for something, that is perhaps the counter to my previous point.

You could well be right, and as with most things, I am not sure there's one answer so hard to disagree that pressure was a factor. I think it was accurate but yes, a bit of a cheap shot, as for me, he was alkso addressing Maddison and Sonny (senior players) but Werner made it too easy to pin him.
 
I was Ange out before, still am, but today doesn't change anything for me, the FA Cup is a stupid competition and has no relevance on proper football.

I'd have put a defeat today in the + column.

He should be judged on league games alone.
 
We'll probably look competitive against Arsenal, but it's the run after that where we'll see if he's worth sticking with. I have my doubts.
 
I think he's the Brennan Johnson of managers. There's a glimmer of promise about once every 10 games, but its never actually going to happen for him
I think hes the complete opposite of Brennan Johnson - Johnson actually has a good output this season. He's one of those weird players that basically does absolutely f*** all for 89 minutes then scores or assists. Ange on the other hand builds a team that runs around a lot, plays some lovely football, and then struggles to consistently put points on the board.
 
Back