Ange departs

[MartyFunkhouser]

What does make me laugh is the talk about wages
IMO we pay the right level for wages for the level of player we have
We can pay more but the player would need to warrant it
Why would we pay more wages for players who have actually achieved very little
The argument will be that you need to pay more to attract better players and that’s logical, but those players will also have other clubs offering them money and are likely to be clubs winning things (if the player is good enough). We can’t compete that way

For me its the goalposts moving, used to be Net spend, now its % of turnover despite not allowing for fact ours is one of the largest in the game, not also taking into account debt ratio. Like most things in life there is a lack of balance when it comes to talking Spurs. We can all acknowledge Levy faults and positives, like we can say that some managers/players should have also walked through the door and won something given the platform they had. Amazon got the "all or nothing" part of the documentary spot on, but more about fan takes TBH

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For me its the goalposts moving, used to be Net spend, now its % of turnover despite not allowing for fact ours is one of the largest in the game, not also taking into account debt ratio. Like most things in life there is a lack of balance when it comes to talking Spurs. We can all acknowledge Levy faults and positives, like we can say that some managers/players should have also walked through the door and won something given the platform they had. Amazon got the "all or nothing" part of the documentary spot on, but more about fan takes TBH

No organisation wants to pay more than they need to. Money is tight everywhere and needs to be used in the best way
We can offer a player £200k a week but so can other teams. That player may chose someone else and the bar is now set that Tottenham offered that so the next guy will expect it
United have caught a cold with that
I prefer it if the player earns it like we have to do in the real world

 

[billyiddo]

Of course we as fans want to have top players, which in turn means big wages but those top players will have offers of whatever we can offer elsewhere at more established clubs, so are not going to choose us currently if given the choice - we can go out and give middling players bigger wages but where will that get us? We need to first build a team that can compete at the top end and then use that as a platform to then bring in the right calibre of talent at the more expensive end - if you try and do it the other way round you end up in Uniteds position with a bloated squad of overpaid players that serious clubs wouldn't have been interested in.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Optus Sport Has Closed

Postecoglou admits Spurs error derailed season as he trys to get fans believing again: ‘I'm still optimistic’​

Asked what had been the biggest challenge this season, Postecoglou replied: “The domino effect of certain things happening.

“Again, you try and assess things as you go along but I think we got the start of the year wrong…it's becoming increasingly challenging for footballers, they don't get the traditional break.

“I think we went into the season really hard and underestimated the challenges of Europe with the two extra games, having a cup run...all those things.

“You add to the mix losing key players early on. It feels like we've been chasing our tail since then and we haven't been able to get ahead of the challenges we've had and then something else happens and it shifts.

“That goes back to the start of the year - we maybe would have taken a different approach knowing the kind of season we had ahead.”

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All fair comments IMO. Suspect if Ange is at a PL club in future that has qualified for European competition he would ensure he filled his whole PL squad quota and did so by bringing in and/or not letting go of a few experienced players.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Of course we as fans want to have top players, which in turn means big wages but those top players will have offers of whatever we can offer elsewhere at more established clubs, so are not going to choose us currently if given the choice - we can go out and give middling players bigger wages but where will that get us? We need to first build a team that can compete at the top end and then use that as a platform to then bring in the right calibre of talent at the more expensive end - if you try and do it the other way round you end up in Uniteds position with a bloated squad of overpaid players that serious clubs wouldn't have been interested in.

Fully agree
You need the basics before adding the stardust

 

[fernadez]

Ange has managed in Europe before with Celtic and he and others have taken issue with people saying his prior experience doesn't count on this job.

With that said how can he then underestimate the challenges. He's been doing this job for a long time, he's dealt with league and Europe and as above we're told that his not managing in a 'top' league isn't something to be used against him when assessing his performance.

Last season he was saying we need more games, that's exactly what we got this season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think the basic point at the moment is that we'd have a FAR better shot of winning the EL if the squad could be galvanised and organised by a caretaker. It just makes no sense to keep flogging the dead horse

Lol..... Just like how Ryan Mason didn't bring us home the League Cup in 2021 after Mourinho had been sacked eh?
Or how Stellini and Mason managed to turn 4th place to 8th place, winning a massive 11 points out of a possible 30 in 2023 after Conte had been sacked?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agreed, and I'd like to direct a huge "I TOLD YOU SO" at those posters that disagreed with me when I said umpteen times at the start of the season that we needed to rotate more, and that players were being flogged until they broke.



And @thfcsteff please stop it with the Captain Hindsight nonsense, it is not hindsight.
Likewise on the pod when Milo said Ange was running Udogie and Porro into the ground and Djed hardly got a look in, you said that it was an intangible and couldn't be discussed because Djed later got injured, which is illogical: https://shows.acast.com/5ff4636ed6e3f1135f46f0cb/67e9c6ee5fb59eadfc74a682?seek=1470

Didn't you say that after they broke?

 

[thfcsteff]

All fair comments IMO. Suspect if Ange is at a PL club in future that has qualified for European competition he would ensure he filled his whole PL squad quota and did so by bringing in and/or not letting go of a few experienced players.

I certainly felt there was a subtext along the lines of 'we should've kept Hojberg or Skipp' in there among the many points being made...

 

[Finney Is Back]

We were not good
But you don’t have to be to win a cup
You will never win if the ref gets the basics wrong

I can only imagine the smile on Guardiola's face once he read that Mourinho had been sacked and we'd be going into the final managed by Ryan Mason (though I suppose it could've been a mixed look of 'WHO?!?' puzzlement on his face as well as the smile)

 

[thfcsteff]

Ange has managed in Europe before with Celtic and he and others have taken issue with people saying his prior experience doesn't count on this job.

With that said how can he then underestimate the challenges. He's been doing this job for a long time, he's dealt with league and Europe and as above we're told that his not managing in a 'top' league isn't something to be used against him when assessing his performance.

Last season he was saying we need more games, that's exactly what we got this season.

Do you think circumstances have always been the same at every club? Do you think Arteta has messed up this season by not 'doing more' to mitigate injuries (3 more down for them today)? Do you think Eddie Howe fudged up last season?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Hell just get sacked to some point next season. He doesn't have the pragmatism necesary to succeed over the course of a premier League season. We'd need to see a revaluation and evolution of his tactical approach to succeed.

I'd love him to do that because I otherwise think his overall philosophy is a positive one but he seems unable to make the subtle adjustments needed to actually succeed here.

It feels for me the route for success for Ange is getting an ever increasing quality of player, but I think we will reach the ceiling of what we are willing or able to bring in before Ange gets the quality of player his system requires for actual success.

You've posted this in response to my post of 'if we repeated 5th, trophy every two years from then on'.

IF he did that (and I know it is hypothetical and a big IF, then he would undisputedly be Tottenham's greatest ever manager.

Do I think Ange is good enough? No. However, I have absolutely zero confidence in the set up at Spurs hiring the right manager, so if Ange somehow does manage to defy the odds and win the Europa league this season, he would have a 1 trophy in 2 years and 1 CL qualification and 1 Europa qualification in 2 years record, which would make him one of our best managers ever. He then deserves to stay on and if he got sacked in the summer anyway it would be (yet another) poor decision by the board at Spurs.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree.

If we were to win the EL , if our owners were really ambitous at that point (yeah, i know) they'd say:

"thanks Ange for getting us this great cup win, you'll forever be in Spurs folklore but here's your P45 we want to hire someone who will build on this great triumph. Best wishes"

No, what they would say is: "Brilliant work in winning the Europa League Ange, what do you need for us to go on and win the Premier League and the Champions League next season?"

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I can only imagine the smile on Guardiola's face once he read that Mourinho had been sacked and we'd be going into the final managed by Ryan Mason (though I suppose it could've been a mixed look of 'WHO?!?' puzzlement on his face as well as the smile)

Don’t you remember sky posting their win % before the game

 

[glorygloryeze]

No, what they would say is: "Brilliant work in winning the Europa League Ange, what do you need for us to go on and win the Premier League and the Champions League next season?"

Nah. Winning a cup competition would be great. If they were ambitious though, they'd recognise that - despite not really giving him great backing in the summer, imo - that there is no excuses for languishing in 14/15th place in the table.
Take the good bits (somehow getting us back to the CL via a EL cup win) and discard the poor bits (losing nearly 20 league games, again something which is not acceptable regardless of backing/not backing last summer)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nah. Winning a cup competition would be great. If they were ambitious though, they'd recognise that - despite not really giving him great backing in the summer, imo - that there is no excuses for languishing in 14/15th place in the table.
Take the good bits (somehow getting us back to the CL via a EL cup win) and discard the poor bits (losing nearly 20 league games, again something which is not acceptable regardless of backing/not backing last summer)

I'd happily languish in 14th/15th in the table for the next 20 years if we won a pot every season!

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'd happily languish in 14th/15th in the table for the next 20 years if we won a pot every season!

You'd like it for the first 2 years and then realise you'd want more ambition

 

[fernadez]

Do you think circumstances have always been the same at every club? Do you think Arteta has messed up this season by not 'doing more' to mitigate injuries (3 more down for them today)? Do you think Eddie Howe fudged up last season?

Well at Celtic he suffered with injuries and has acknowledged that it happens with this demands, and we did last season, so I'd say that coupled with his past experience of the demands of European football should have stood him in good stead to know what to expect.

A few of us on here commented also that selling both Hojberg and Skipp was a mistake at the time. We don't play with that sort of #6 but in times of crisis they're good to have.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You'd like it for the first 2 years and then realise you'd want more ambition

Imagine being in a position where only winning a trophy every season wasn't considered ambitious enough?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Imagine being in a position where only winning a trophy every season wasn't considered ambitious enough?

Imagine being happy to finish 14/15 in the league every year though..what are those trophies likely to be in those cases, eh

All hypothetical of course